Remove guard tasks - reason inside

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borog
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Postby borog » May 03, 2012 17:30

i fail to see what the point of this thread is about.
So some people got high RR by killing guards? big deal, it shouldn't make any difference to anyone else whether a person got to r10 killing guards or not.

in fact, wouldn't it be fair to say that it would be easier killing a high ranked tasker than someone who is used to rvr, which in turn net a greater RVR rewards to the person killing them?

Stop whining about guard taskers and just kill the fuggers.
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Skarz
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Postby Skarz » May 03, 2012 18:00

doing a task on ur way to the rvr hotspot ( amg emain ) or going to HW for a task due to unplayable conditions at amg is a nice option to have, as a solo'er the gold was nice aswell, but one thing i would have to agree on is the people who does 0 rvr and simply grind task's is ridiculously lame, it takes 1 idiot like this minstral to ruin it for others. i personaly think the solution is increasing the retake timer on the task, something like this...... rr1 = retake timer on solo guard task 10 mins, + 5 - 10 minutes per realmrank,

would give lowbies the option to get a confortable RR as we have all done, but remove the option to get rr11 simply tasking.

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Postby Kiksens » May 03, 2012 21:59

Skarz wrote: i personaly think the solution is increasing the retake timer on the task, something like this...... rr1 = retake timer on solo guard task 10 mins, + 5 - 10 minutes per realmrank,

would give lowbies the option to get a confortable RR as we have all done, but remove the option to get rr11 simply tasking.


I like ur idea, this would be a nice compromise imho.

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RonELuvv
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Postby RonELuvv » May 03, 2012 22:14

Skarz wrote:doing a task on ur way to the rvr hotspot ( amg emain ) or going to HW for a task due to unplayable conditions at amg is a nice option to have, as a solo'er the gold was nice aswell, but one thing i would have to agree on is the people who does 0 rvr and simply grind task's is ridiculously lame, it takes 1 idiot like this minstral to ruin it for others. i personaly think the solution is increasing the retake timer on the task, something like this...... rr1 = retake timer on solo guard task 10 mins, + 5 - 10 minutes per realmrank,

would give lowbies the option to get a confortable RR as we have all done, but remove the option to get rr11 simply tasking.


Skarz, me and you have had our fair share of fun meetings in Emain. I know you task alot, and I got no problem w/ sombody tasking to supplement their PvP for the night as you do. I think your idea is good and is just another way they could scale down tasks for higher RR's. I proposed lowering the value of rp's worth task based on RR but the timer increase would also be a good fix. Either way, they need to make it so people that are higher RR's actually do something besides just tasks.

@ Borog- The problem is alot of players NEVER come out to PvP and instead just do tasks. One of the biggest complaints (especially from American prime time players) is that there is not enough action. If these taskers came out and RvR'd on occasion it would help that problem. Also, you are right, those taskers are usually very easy to kill and worth alot of RP's because of their high RR. The reason they are easy is because all they know how to do is sneak up to a scout/ranger/hunter npc and kill a PvE mob. They never learned how to play their toon against other actual players. Then they blame their loss on RR and then go back to tasking because they claim they are not high enough RR to compete... You also say to kill them, but where? All 3 realms have HUGE open spaces w/ multiple keeps. Unless your guild owns the keep they are tasking on, you will more then likely never know sombody is tasking it.

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Postby Hendak » May 03, 2012 23:45

Ron why are you so hellbent on wanting people to play "your" way?

A few snippets from your recent posts, and I HATE people who do this but felt it somewhat important:

RonELuvv - Either way, they need to make it so people that are higher RR's actually do something besides just tasks.

So people under a certain RR are free to task but higher RR need to do something else? Scary comment.

RonELuvv- Also, you are right, those taskers are usually very easy to kill and worth alot of RP's because of their high RR. The reason they are easy is because all they know how to do is sneak up to a scout/ranger/hunter npc and kill a PvE mob. They never learned how to play their toon against other actual players.

Blanket statement and smarten up. Some of the people I have tasked with played 4-8 years on live, myself included, in active guilds with active 8man crews and made very high RR strictly RvRing (pre-ToA ftw btw), so saying something like that is wrong and sad.

RonELuvv- You also say to kill them, but where? All 3 realms have HUGE open spaces w/ multiple keeps. Unless your guild owns the keep they are tasking on, you will more then likely never know sombody is tasking it.

You do know that the Uthgard Herald accurately shows keeps lit up when people are there killing guards yes? It was added last year and more and more people actually use it. Did you never play the live servers, it was an in-game feature when NF was released iirc.


You fail to accept and realize that small man or 8man RvR is nothing like it is on live or for Euro primtime. It is fairly non-existent, or you roam for 30minutes killing nothing or worse... a solo or duo. It's not fun and people log due to sheer boredom. I am glad to RvR personally, and it is my preference but when there is nothing doing tasking helps people, groups and guilds stay online and gain rps when RvR isn't happening.

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Postby Sturlek » May 04, 2012 08:18

RonELuvv wrote:
Dkarn wrote:I dont see anything wrong with people guardtasking. If anything it almost seems that people are jealous of the taskers? If it were really as unbalancing as some of you think then then everyone would be doing it. It is a good solid way for pre RR5 toons to at least get to a realm rank where they arent just fodder.


Nobody is "jealous" of taskers. They are frustrated that several high RR players got their RR from doing nothing but PvE essentially. DAoC was founded on the idea that PvE was awarded w/ XP and levels where as PvP was rewarded w/ RR's and realm points.


I fundamentally disagree with this statement. Realm points should be awarded for any Realm vs. Realm activity, not just PvP. Please recognize the distinction. RvR includes but is not limited to PvP activites; more generally any activity that directly attacks an enemy realm is RvR. People seem to be frustrated about guard tasks giving out RPs because they think it is PvE only, when in reality it is both PvE and RvR. You can argue that the benefit to the realm from killing NPC guards is trivial, but I can say the same exact thing about 99% of the PvP that occurs. Really the only thing that actually benefits the entire realm is taking keeps and relics, so until you are willing to sacrifice the RPs you make from pointlessly killing players in Emain, you really have no room to argue that any guard killing isn't worthy of RPs as well. If the argument you want to make is that RPs should only be rewarded for activities that you personally think require some threshold of "skill", then come out and say that directly and I can dismember that argument on its own merits.

Next, your solution to provide diminishing returns on guard tasks with increasing realm ranks is flawed for 3 reasons. First, all realm points already have diminishing value with higher RR since the amount required to gain a realm level level (reward) already increases as you climb the ladder. The only reason to implement further diminishing returns on guard tasks would be to specifically discourage guard tasking vs. PvP, and I have yet to hear a convincing reason from you or anyone else why PvP is a more "worthy" activity than guard tasking. Second, this solution does nothing to alleviate the lack of viable RP gaining activities for players that play during low population hours. Even if killing guard tasks somehow magically fulfilled the population and class diversity requirements across multiple realms needed to start groups (it wouldn't), what happens to that 9th player that doesn't get a spot in the only running group in his realm? Is he supposed to sit around and twiddle his thumbs waiting for a slot to open up? Thirdly, your solution unfairly punishes classes that excel at soloing, or players that prefer to solo or play at a casual pace, compared to those that excel at or enjoy grouping. Clearly not all classes are equally viable at group play, and because groups can always suppress solo RvR, lone wolf players need a reliable and consistent means with which to climb the ranks. Stealth alleviates this problem somewhat, but it is by no means a perfect solution, nor do all players that need/want to solo have access to stealth.


>>"@ Borog- The problem is alot of players NEVER come out to PvP and instead just do tasks."

Maybe you are looking at it the wrong way. Maybe you should go out to them rather than the other way around. And it doesn't have to be in a group... a lot of players camp keeps and prevent tasking by watching the Herald. The players that whine about taskers but spend all day running circles around AMG Emain are as much to blame as the runaway taskers themselves.

Finally, I am 80% sure that guard tasks were available on classic live, at least before ToA came out.

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Lasastard
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Postby Lasastard » May 04, 2012 08:55

Sturlek wrote:
I fundamentally disagree with this statement. Realm points should be awarded for any Realm vs. Realm activity, not just PvP. Please recognize the distinction. RvR includes but is not limited to PvP activites; more generally any activity that directly attacks an enemy realm is RvR. People seem to be frustrated about guard tasks giving out RPs because they think it is PvE only, when in reality it is both PvE and RvR. You can argue that the benefit to the realm from killing NPC guards is trivial, but I can say the same exact thing about 99% of the PvP that occurs. Really the only thing that actually benefits the entire realm is taking keeps and relics, so until you are willing to sacrifice the RPs you make from pointlessly killing players in Emain, you really have no room to argue that any guard killing isn't worthy of RPs as well.


First of all, there is a difference between 'trivial' and 'inconsequential'. Zerging is trivial, killing yellow NPC guards that respawn within a few minutes and do not negatively effect the enemy is inconsequential. Killing enemies has a huge consequence - they die and need to sit 10mins on the porter, and you get 'stronger' from it. Now, we don't want to get into distinctions between differnt types of RvR - be it 8vs8, zerging or stealth-zerging or raiding keeps. These things take different levels of skill, but all include directly engaging the enemy or making a measurable impact (like getting DF access).

Now, if we want to argue about whether raiding keeps is any diffferent from merely killing guards, than we should keep in mind that Uthgard has one very major shortcoming - and that is the missing implementation of relic guards that are tied to the keep status. Nevertheless and as mentioned above, there is the DF access, which one can argue is a form of engaging the enemy (taking away their access).

So really, any way you turn this, guard tasks are being abused by players who want to continue character progression without actually going the widely accepted path to doing so (which is fighting enemy players). That alone wouldn't bug so many people if it wouldn't mean that these people eventually show up to do RvR with an advantage that they didn't earn from actually fighting the enemy realm. IN that context killing guards and getting rewarded with RP is like selling snow to eskimos and expecting to be payed for it.
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Trishin
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Postby Trishin » May 04, 2012 10:35

The only thing making us consider removing guard tasks is the fact that these were not implemented during our patch limit.

If you want to stop people gaining high realm rank from tasking you should intercept them by protecting your keeps.

We have by the way planned to implemented the courier RvR tasks that were implemented during our patch limit.

We have just not gotten around to it yet.

http://support.darkageofcamelot.com/kb/ ... php?id=543

Courier Missions

We have introduced a new set of tasks named "Courier missions". These missions take place within the frontiers and can only be given to players who are 30th level or higher. There are two sides to each mission, a kill task and a protect task. The primary goal of the kill task is to speak with the mark dealer for a task, locate the courier listed, hunt the courier down, and then kill it. The protect task is a bit different in that you must find the courier, speak to it to obtain the task, and then ensure the courier reaches its destination alive. To better assist the defenders in locating a courier to defend, we have also added a status monitor within both border keeps. These status monitors will broadcast to the entire keep if a courier needs a defender and where this courier is located. You can also speak with this monitor to find if there are any couriers in transit that require assistance. As with all tasks, you may use /task command to receive the status of your task at any time. Please note that you will have only one hour to complete this task. Should the courier take longer than this to reach its destination or should you not locate the courier, the task is considered forfeit.

The details of the rewards are as follows:

Kill Task - A large sum of coin will be split evenly to anyone who is on this task when the courier is killed. In order to receive your reward, you must be within 6000 units (just outside of visual range) of the courier when it dies.

Protect Task - A large sum of coin will be split evenly to anyone who is on this task when the courier reaches its destination. In order to receive your reward, you must be within 6000 units (just outside of visual range) of the courier when it reaches this point.

Following is the list of Mark Dealers and Status Monitors:

Albion

Status monitors: Kirbie Hareford (Castle Sauvage), Paytan Varden (Snowdonia Keep)

Midgard mark dealer: Ohtor (Portal Keep - Hadrian?s Wall)

Hibernia mark dealer: Edouarz (Portal Keep - Hadrian?s Wall)


Midgard

Status monitors: Ulfr (Svasud Faste), Steig (Vindsaul Faste)

Albion mark dealer: Bardolf Culthit (Portal Keep - Odin?s Gate)

Hibernia mark dealer: Drust (Portal Keep - Odin?s Gate)


Hibernia

Status monitors: Garth (Druim Ligen), Eodan (Druim Cain)

Albion mark dealer: Centwine Melgim (Portal Keep - Emain Macha)

Midgard mark dealer: Skuti (Portal Keep - Emain Macha)

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Postby Aragorn » May 04, 2012 10:55

Sounds good, Thrish! implement it! xD
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Luydor
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Postby Luydor » May 04, 2012 11:31

Well, removing something that people have fun with is bad on uthgard is bad anyway.
Just try to bring them something that is more fun.

Greetz Luydor
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Postby Aragorn » May 04, 2012 11:35

I second Luydors comment.
Implement the courier task and let the kill task still in .. so you have more choice! ^^
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Gorim
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Postby Gorim » May 04, 2012 12:14

Good good, so finally the staff want to push the cashflow of the players and still say it is to much money in the game....
Other point is, that if your char is lvl 50 and u finally crafted a template you don't need much money, so no reason to go out in the frontiers....

Not a really good change if u want to raise the RvR population actually.


Edit: For the ones who maybe misunderstand it, the first 2 sentences are ironic...

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adjuchas_brokk
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Postby adjuchas_brokk » May 04, 2012 14:58

My only problem with guard tasking is the boredom factor and from personal experience I notice it's mostly stealth classes doing them.
Replacing the "guard kill" task with a "keep take" one would be quite interesting. It would create a task that was much less prohibitive to solo visible melee-only classes that only have access to a few outer guards while providing a reason for the more solo-friendly classes to group with others.

I understand that this isn't going to be very popular with the burgeoning stealther population, but it's important to try to look at this from other perspectives rather than just a selfish one.
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Skarz
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Postby Skarz » May 04, 2012 15:57

yeh adding an extra task option is certianly going to stop the players doing 0 rvr and gaining rr7+ great thinking !!!!!!!!!!!!
jeesh no wounder nothing gets fixed, hellbent on staying on a self destructive path. uthgard only lives right now due to lack of options on the server list. stop adding stuff. seriously think about fixing.

The only descent task was the solo player kill task. it actualy promoted players to kill players, but u removed that. hows that task different to the guard task.? why not bring bk player kill task for solo and grps, and remove all the others. OR make the solo task retake time 30+ mins or the guard count 15+ making tasks an option but not a viable way to rp pl themselve's.

as for the remark about defending keeps to stop taskers. ye ok im very active but alot of ppl want instant action. ive waited hmg / amg odins before now for over an hour without kill. anybody with a limited play time is not even going to consider that. the player that started all this... timoh or what ever the minstrels called only tasks with SoS up and so hard to catch, rest of taskers are 90% stealthers means only players that can effectivly stop taskers are other stealthers via camping amg/hmg/mmg. visible char's will need to pick a keep and hope some tasker comes. point being unless you are tasking in Emain..... u are safe from rvr. and gaining realmpoints.

imo just do a server char rr wipe.... lets start over with 0 tasks availible. id like to see the tasks gone alltogether but while some ppl have made alot of rps from tasks overall including myself theres an unfair factor to all the newer players w/o the option.

oh and ronia no matter how good a point anyone makes WE wont get things changed for the better. GM needs to wake up and pretend the idea is his first.

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Postby ZaiQQ » May 04, 2012 16:26

I like all the "well if you see a keep on fire, go kill the tasker!" Yeah, you can almost make it there remotley in time to kill someone who climbs the wall and kills 5 archers, takes 2 minutes tops to kill those 5 guards. Then theres the fact that the majority of the taskers are stealthers, which means you cannot find them unless they want to be found, kinda. Which leaves them with yet another descision, just suicide and grab a new task or try and fight (they for sure will not engage before they finnished their mission) Keep taking task would for sure be alot more interesting in all aspects then just pointless guard farming.
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