No offense but this thread is a bit pointless, first because this server is 1.65 and it's not gonna change.

Second, because most of the problems mentioned above are shared by many classes on all realms. Actually, I'd venture to say that, in the hypothetical (and absolute remotely) case that devs changed their minds about sticking to 1.65 there are plenty of classes with issues more important to address. For example those that are commonly banned from RvR groups

EDIT just to say that best that OP can do, as said already, is watching videos of other bards

The realms do not have mirrored classes. Even if some share similarities, it doesn't mean they are to be played the same way.

Bard is strong if played well and playing with its own advantages. You must remember that some spec lines are pretty much useless on some classes for rvr. Bard weapon line for example. Granted, it may have its uses, but there is a plethora of other choice characters to take that roll and do a better job.

Enchantment chanter, mentalism mentalist, nature Druid to an extent, creeping or verdant animist, melee bard to name a few specs that aren't considered the best possible usage of each class for group rvr.


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falscheneun wrote:

Danny89 wrote:bard rant

well, you seem to be pretty clueless about the class, just like pweet pointed out.

i dont think you should be giving advice on how useless and crappy a class is that you obviously do not know how to play properly. if i was OP and read that passage of yours id probably delete my bard immediatly. its a fact that a bard can be a weapon in the right hands just like a minstrel or pac.

as mentioned above, bard alongside minstrel, pac, maybe sorc sure is one of the highest skill cap classes in the game (regardless of the patch).

@OP instead of listening to useless walls of texts by people who go afk when rooted, i advise you to watch some videos or ask in the realm specific/rvr board.

https://www.youtube.com/user/ReqVids/videos this is Caits POV, im sure theres a lot of tricks you can learn. additionally theres a RVR AMA thread in the RVR boards that im too lazy to look up now though

Thanks,

I won't give up on it so easily, I mean mainly just looking for tips, with some wahh mixed in. Ill check the vid out.

As others said, dont listen to this rant-boy.in 2v2 with bm you need to get a bit creative on what to do besides running and healing. If one of their.casters is free, you can keep it in your interupt-lock. When nearsighted you could juggle with their castrange or just plain charge them into melee, making sure they cant stop you by use of amnesia and dd shout. Vs melees as someone pointed out already, you could spec 10 into blades and learn how to sidestrafe more or less consistently - then you re able to free yourself from melees all by yourself. In general, bards should be well informed about their enemies and allys capabilities and always aware to position (!!!) and react accordingly.

Underlining it once.more: Bards thrive on Creativity, Knowledge, Positioning, somie Mechanics and again Positioning.

If youre willing to practice and master these aspects, you will do a lot better and never feel useless again and we ll see another proof for how bards can become nightmares for enemies

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I legit thought the OP was trolling.

Bard is one of the best classes in the game, even in 1.65.

Heals + Base Buffs + Fast Speed + Endo + Primary CC + Power Regen

You realize that on Alb you would need to run a Sorcerer, Minstrel, Paladin and Friar just to cover CC/Speed/Endo/Power/Base Buffs/heals that a Bard has? But you don't get any DPS or MoC.

The grass is always greener lol. No mirrored classes man and EACH class has its own issues and short comings when compared to others.

IDK if this has been said yet, but I do not believe anyone has brought up the fact Bards have Insta AE Amnesia. Do you know, back in the day when I was playing my Sorcerer, what I would give for an Instant AE Interrupt that is at clipping range?! That can be incredibly useful. Also, Bards and Healers have Insta-Mezz, Sorcerers don't. You also wear Scale, Sorcerers wear cloth lol.

Now I am not trying to complain or say Sorcs suck and Bards rule. They are just different lol Each class has something the other realms' characters want. Each class requires different styles of play. Bard is one of the more difficult classes to play, in fact I would say Bard and Healer are the two most difficult classes to play well. Doesn't mean they are impossible, it just means you have to understand the role of the class, manage your group and the flow of battle properly, and understand the limitations of your class.

Danny89 wrote:Bard is one of the reasons (beside Enchs, Mentas and Wardens... oh wait, another 3 classes, yes) why Hibernia is so terrible in RVR on this patch.

Hibernia is FORCED to take a Bard in each group, because of the speed, the endurance SONG, the mezz and the demezz, but is simultaneously one of the weakest classes in DAOC at this patch.

He has NOTHING beside that. No Styles. No Heals. No other ruppt than a single dd every xx seconds (Minstrls and Skalds are laughing so hard).


Try to get on the endurance SONG: Well, it takes 3 seconds to "channel" the song, but is interruptable: Fun, in many fights you wont get Endurance Song turned on. On the next few patches, when Bard got access to moc, moc was also sometimes used just to put that stupid endurance song on.

Try to be useful:
- Dont get rootet: You are out of the fight.
- Dont get mezzed: There will be no second demezzer and you have no Mezzdumb or ANYTHING that will help you. Mezz without Purge (30 minutes on this patch!!!): AFK for 1 Minute
- Dont get Nearsighted: Your are out of the fight.
- Dont get a pet sticked to your a**.

Literally any CC just f**** you completly and Hibernian groups MUST keep on playing 7 vs 8.

Even IF you are standing free, running endurance song: What are you supposed to do?

Use your mezzes to interrupt / set random mezzimmunity?
What if the enemies have mezz immunity?

You wont interrupt properly.
You wont heal properly.


Bard got better with nearly every single patch after 1.65 (well, no surprise). Uninterruptable song switch (patch), MoC (I guess NF/ new RAs), 5 Minute Purge (NF/new RAs), SoS (NF/new RAs), selfmezzdump (patch), access to healing (patch), access to a second CC-> root (patch), access to a second insta DD (patch), access to a ranged ruppt with utility-> Championlevel disease, ... .


Yours Danny,
Hibernian player since 2002, played until patch 1.100, RR11 Menta/Eld/Ranger, RR9 Druid and Bard,

who is

DEFINETELY

not playing Hibernia on this patchstate again (rolling Albion)

bahahahahaha.. man you really have no idea what a bard brings to a group then.. you seem to have forgotten they have 3 insta rupts.. and if youre skilled enough to spec 10 into blades and know when to side snare someone off a druid before a tank comes in.. Im sorry man but youre not thinking this through lol

Getting back to the OP....


First of all, playing bard well at any patch level is difficult. Yes later patches made it easier for mediocre bards to be semi-useful, but trust me a well played bard is still very good.

You ask what we are needed for? Here's the brutal truth of it. A bards job is as follows:

1) Stay alive (lol, if we weren't so useful for endo, we wouldn't get targeted instantly)
2) Get end song up
3) Demezz
4) CC and interupt


Some tips on doing those things successfully:

1) Get very used to mouse pan and mouse turn. You will want to be sprinting around a lot of the fight, because you will almost always have someone on you, or looking for you.

2) End song can be very annoying to get up, my suggestion is, after initial CC (and many will burn insta so they don't spend time casting), you should be looping back hard and trying to get end up. If you pull 1000+ units behind your druids, enemy tanks will be forced to overextend to hit you. If you have a pet on you, call it. Druids can root, casters can stun, tanks can slam peel it

3) After the initial loop, you need to hit the demezz and get your people back to the fight. As mentioned previously, druids have group purge. Don't be afraid to simple say "GP it" if a lot are mezzed and you need the help to clear it.

4) Slowly re-enter the fight, constantly panning and running if anyone so much as looks at you. You'll be using mezz to CC and interupt, but you'll also want to use you anemia instas (oddly the single target is usually best as it's resisted more often, less likely to break a mezz, and on a faster time). Your DD can also be good. Keep in mind that confusion is very handy vs pets (I know it used to insta kill theurg pets, I assume it still does).

Some other neat tips and tricks:

-Your DD shout looks like a PBAOE, if you see someone near one of your casters, throwing this on them can actually make them scatter thinking that a PBAOE bomb is happening.

-Never spend more than 3 casts without moving, you are asking to get targeted and killed. This is more of a rule of thumb, but a good one.

-Don't bother healing 99% of the time. It's useless because you can't come close to out healing damage, and you'll drain your mana bar crazy fast. In fact, the only heal you will likely ever use in an rvr fight outside of spot heals between fights or at keeps is AM (the class specific RA). If you really want to heal, roll a druid

-You should RARELY pull out your weaps. When you do, it's just to do a drive by interrupt of a caster and then put end back up.

-Remember that everyone wants you dead, usually as the first target, so the longer you stay alive, the more likely your group is to be successful. I've one several fights where I've never thrown a casted spell, but spent the whole fight running for my life.





Hope that helps

Funny how everyone has their own perspectives. I've always thought Bard was the most OP class in the game. Imagine needing to carry around a Skald just to have speed? Or a pally just to have endo? Or a minstrel just to have speed? Or a sorc just to mez? Talk about useless 8man classes otherwise.

Nezix wrote:I legit thought the OP was trolling.

Bard is one of the best classes in the game, even in 1.65.

Heals + Base Buffs + Fast Speed + Endo + Primary CC + Power Regen

You realize that on Alb you would need to run a Sorcerer, Minstrel, Paladin and Friar just to cover CC/Speed/Endo/Power/Base Buffs/heals that a Bard has? But you don't get any DPS or MoC.

No kidding and thats part of why I wont play Alb anymore. "But mom, there is crust on my sandwich" is what this sounds like TBH. QQ moar newb?

Anyway, to get back to the subject at hand. The bard has the highest skill cap of any of the primary CCers. I am decent on a sorc, better on a healer, but Ill admit, I am absolute trash on a bard.

Danny89 wrote:
No other ruppt than a single dd every xx seconds

I mean you did claim to play a bard to RR9... which makes me think you should know about amnesia... right?? right??

Live bard has 4 insta interrupts, 1.65 has 3. Amnesia has 2300 range, dd has 700. The idea that you are interrupting with dds exclusively makes me think you don't really remember.

Also, the no mez clear thing... everyone ran and should be running double bard in every group. Its suicide not too.

Those are the only 2 things im going to touch in this post of luls.

Chysil wrote:Getting back to the OP....


First of all, playing bard well at any patch level is difficult. Yes later patches made it easier for mediocre bards to be semi-useful, but trust me a well played bard is still very good.

You ask what we are needed for? Here's the brutal truth of it. A bards job is as follows:

1) Stay alive (lol, if we weren't so useful for endo, we wouldn't get targeted instantly)
2) Get end song up
3) Demezz
4) CC and interupt


Some tips on doing those things successfully:

1) Get very used to mouse pan and mouse turn. You will want to be sprinting around a lot of the fight, because you will almost always have someone on you, or looking for you.

2) End song can be very annoying to get up, my suggestion is, after initial CC (and many will burn insta so they don't spend time casting), you should be looping back hard and trying to get end up. If you pull 1000+ units behind your druids, enemy tanks will be forced to overextend to hit you. If you have a pet on you, call it. Druids can root, casters can stun, tanks can slam peel it

3) After the initial loop, you need to hit the demezz and get your people back to the fight. As mentioned previously, druids have group purge. Don't be afraid to simple say "GP it" if a lot are mezzed and you need the help to clear it.

4) Slowly re-enter the fight, constantly panning and running if anyone so much as looks at you. You'll be using mezz to CC and interupt, but you'll also want to use you anemia instas (oddly the single target is usually best as it's resisted more often, less likely to break a mezz, and on a faster time). Your DD can also be good. Keep in mind that confusion is very handy vs pets (I know it used to insta kill theurg pets, I assume it still does).

Some other neat tips and tricks:

-Your DD shout looks like a PBAOE, if you see someone near one of your casters, throwing this on them can actually make them scatter thinking that a PBAOE bomb is happening.

-Never spend more than 3 casts without moving, you are asking to get targeted and killed. This is more of a rule of thumb, but a good one.

-Don't bother healing 99% of the time. It's useless because you can't come close to out healing damage, and you'll drain your mana bar crazy fast. In fact, the only heal you will likely ever use in an rvr fight outside of spot heals between fights or at keeps is AM (the class specific RA). If you really want to heal, roll a druid

-You should RARELY pull out your weaps. When you do, it's just to do a drive by interrupt of a caster and then put end back up.

-Remember that everyone wants you dead, usually as the first target, so the longer you stay alive, the more likely your group is to be successful. I've one several fights where I've never thrown a casted spell, but spent the whole fight running for my life.





Hope that helps

I've been on the fence about rolling a bard or druid for RvR. Your post has me quite excited to begin leveling a bard for future RvR domination. Granted, the idea of playing a bard in RvR is scary as all hell, but why not give 'er, eh?

Aside from the Youtube link for Req's vids (thank you falscheneun), are there any other great resources you guys can provide?

Also I should add that if you are not running a 2 bard setup, you will be expected to twist non-stop in order to run speed 6 in most of the high end groups. This can be VERY VERY annoying, and if you are twisting you have to wait for the entire song to finish prior to casting anything that isn't an insta cast.

If you are twisting on inc:
Insta mezz and loop as previous. In fact, casted mezz with both groups speed 6ing toward each other is near useless at the start of the fight, tanks will be on you instantly and you'll die horribly.

or

Throw AOE Amnesia to break their speed and loop hard. You'll want to cycle speed at least once more to let your tanks have speed, but then stop on endo and re-enter the fight