Before you read this, here are some infos :
- Yes the logsets might be tiny but they seem to be coherent to point out a serious issue that need further investigate
- The variant damage loged are insignificant compared to the awaited results that should be noted (1-2,5% => around 12%, 2 damage difference over 200 overall where we should notice around 20+ damage difference)
- All other variants have been taken into account so we had a long time to test every potential aspects that could be taken into account and we still found this issue even with the overall coherence of the other variables (AF, resists, %bonus weapon, %bonus armor, fixed stats on the target and the hitter, fixed weapon)
- WE are talking about coherence here as i don't have internal uthgard formulas but all sources i could check(a lot of reading and eliminations to secure that they had some proofs, grab bags, logs attached to it to a certain point) seemed coherent to a point concerning the factors
- I have taken a long time to try to be as complete as possible in this issue that i considered a really important one : hope you will take that into consideration and help with the testing of it to make Uthgard better
That beeing said, here goes the issue : %ABSORB OF ARMOR SETS SEEMS NOT TO BE TAKEN INTO ACCOUNT WITHIN DAMAGE CALCULATION
The %abs added to the overall AF SEEMS CORRECT :
ARMOR_FACT = 10 * ARMOR_LEVEL * (1 + ARMOR_ABSORB)
Seem to give the correct AF values (further rounded) :
I.E. :
cloth = 10*50/2*(1+0) = 250 // lvl 51 = 510/2 = 255 (special cloth case) => casters seem to have base AF of around 250-255 depending on MP equiped
leather = 10*50*(1+0.1) =550 // lvl 51 = 510 * 1.1 = 561 => tested with 99% equipped infi capping at 551
studded = 10*50*(1+0.19) = 595 // lvl 51 = 510 * 1.19 = 606.9
mail = 10*50*(1+0.27)=635 // lvl 51 = 510 * 1.27 = 647.7
plate = 10*50*(1+0.34)=670 // lvl 51 = 510 * 1.34 = 683.4) => My paly with 3 MP+3x99% has 680 and caps AF at 684
So the difference in damage should be higher than 1% if you consider someone with or without lvl 2 leather armor (Absorb 10%)
Yes : the melees should do less damages and the Players should take lower damages (which would seem coherent with a lot of videos seen on youtube of healers maintaining people alive for a while) considering armor ABS
The overall BASE DAMAGE formula is NOT THE ISSUE here that should be further tested on its own : ONLY THE ARMOR ABSORB.
It can lead to some tanks taking cap damages against some mobs or not being tough enough in front of other melees
1. Make any melee / physical damage character (here a scout for the sake of switching damage types without influencing WS)
2. Have any toon with an armor take damages
3. test and compare
(seems to also work with caster with/without casted abs)
The AF seem to be well taken into account into the damage formula (check logs down there, 2 sources here, both have coherence on * and / on the abs, AF and WS even if they may differ on other factors) :
http://camelotherald.wikia.com/wiki/Melee_Damage ( for simplifications, i Had to clean out the formula of some (1+xxx toa bonus%) and (1+xxx mythirian bonus) that would factories as *1 anyway, you can check sources to verify)
ENEMY_ARMOR = (
20 + (
ITEM_USEABLE_AF + (ENEMY_SPEC_AF_BONUS / 5)
) * ITEM_QUALITY * ITEM_CONDITION
) / (1 - ITEM_ABSORB)
--------------------
DAMAGE_MODIFIER = LEVEL
* DAMAGE_TABLE / 10
* (1 + 0.01 * STATS)
* (0.9 + 0.1 * MAX(1, STRENGTH_RELIC_COUNT))
* (
0.75
+ 0.5 * MIN(ENEMY_LEVEL + 1, SPEC - 1) / (ENEMY_LEVEL + 1)
+ 0.01 * RANDOM(50)
)
/ ENEMY_ARMOR
* (1 - ENEMY_BUFFED_ABSORB)
* (1 - ENEMY_RESISTANCE)
Notice
/(1-item abs) as a bonus in armor (the more abs, the lower the divisor => the higher the armor that further divides damages)
and *(1-buffed abs) (the higher the abs, the lower the damage multiplier that further absorbs damages)
http://talsyra.tripod.com/daocmechanics/archery_bow_mechanics.html
http://talsyra.tripod.com/daocmechanics/base_damage_mechanics.html
http://talsyra.tripod.com/daocmechanics/af_mechanics.html
(with grab bag link => to check within internet wayback machines for a lot of them)
States equivalent infos :
Effective AF per piece of armor (assuming all other slots filled with equivalent armor):
- clamped AF x quality% x [condition% + (absorb% x quality%)]
Overall AF cap = 10 * level * (1 + abs%/100)
Effective DPS * (your WS/target AF) * (relic bonus) * (1-absorb) * (1-base resists) * (1-RA resists) * slow weap bonus * SPD
notice
*1+abs in AF calc (assuming the armor is 100% condition=> was checked in all the tests) => adding the ABS factor to general AF
WS / AF => coherent to the Higher AF, the lower damages
*(1-abs) => coherent to previous
Both formulas at some point add the absorb as a full factor (1-abs) to damages *1 cloth, *0,9 leather, *0,81 studded, *0,73 mail, *0,66 plate
=> we should notice a coherent and significant decrease in damages with/without armor independently of the small difference due to the lowest AF to no AF
As said before : this is a primary set of tests that should be more investigated but it seemed necessary considering the look and feel i had (and other guildies who had same old SI type experience reported to me too) after doing some PVE/PVP with paladin in epic / in SC full capped
http://imgur.com/a/E9tHy => Uthgard screenshot : 50 paly taking capped 1000+ damages against Beliathan (same damages on 43 merc in group)
some damages taken by green mobs (number of targets and block penetration are another issue to be addressed within another post)
http://imgur.com/a/dpS9x
Example of a paly vs war duel on old live
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LAFO4Slaocc&ab_channel=wickednawh => notice damage taken by both tanks (bloc rates and defense penetration are another issue not to be treated here => only focus on the damages taken while not blocking/parying a styled/unstyled damage)
another old paladin video (not as interesting as the precedent as he is buff boted)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZrD2JtNpUw4&ab_channel=Araudry
in this fight you can check the difference between mages at the begining with casted self AF+ abs needing a train assist to be doomed and afterwards without being taken down by a single tank and the difference in survavibility between a mage with/without selfs and reaver, cleric, friar (with/without assist train) => don't mind the savage quads and crits lol ;x
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZrD2JtNpUw4&ab_channel=Araudry
Sources that seemed the most valuable concerning damage mechanics (even with grab bags links)
http://camelotherald.wikia.com/wiki/Melee_Damage
http://talsyra.tripod.com/daocmechanics/af_mechanics.html
http://talsyra.tripod.com/daocmechanics/damage_basics.html
http://talsyra.tripod.com/daocmechanics/weaponskill_mechanics.html
http://talsyra.tripod.com/daocmechanics/base_damage_mechanics.html
http://talsyra.tripod.com/daocmechanics/damage_cap_mechanics.html
http://talsyra.tripod.com/daocmechanics/damage_variance.html
http://talsyra.tripod.com/daocmechanics/style_growth_formula.html
http://talsyra.tripod.com/daocmechanics/archery_bow_mechanics.html
added Uthgard chatlogs (down here cleared with commentaries)
chat_arc25_99%_AF102_551_res28%_45+8bow_ws1256_wd851 => base damages on capped temped infi
http://pastebin.com/iFWPQviE
[15:12:24] You shot Sade with your heartwood hunting bow and hit for 81 (-31) damage!
[15:12:27] You shot Sade with your heartwood hunting bow and hit for 77 (-29) damage!
[15:12:31] You shot Sade with your heartwood hunting bow and hit for 81 (-31) damage!
[15:12:34] You shot Sade with your heartwood hunting bow and hit for 75 (-29) damage!
[15:12:37] You shot Sade with your heartwood hunting bow and hit for 97 (-37) damage!
[15:12:40] You shot Sade with your heartwood hunting bow and hit for 86 (-33) damage!
[15:12:46] You shot Sade with your heartwood hunting bow and hit for 100 (-38) damage!
[15:12:50] You shot Sade with your heartwood hunting bow and hit for 99 (-38) damage!
[15:12:53] You shot Sade with your heartwood hunting bow and hit for 96 (-37) damage!
[15:12:56] You shot Sade with your heartwood hunting bow and hit for 93 (-36) damage!
[15:12:59] You shot Sade with your heartwood hunting bow and hit for 79 (-30) damage!
[15:13:03] You shot Sade with your heartwood hunting bow and hit for 98 (-37) damage!
[15:13:06] You shot Sade with your heartwood hunting bow and hit for 97 (-37) damage!
chat_arc25_AF102_556_99%_2%resists_tranchant => notice
http://pastebin.com/XPMLs10w
Correct Damage augmentation (or at least coherent) considering the lost %bonus on armor and the lost resists
[15:21:48] You shot Sade with your heartwood hunting bow and hit for 137 (-2) damage!
[15:21:51] You shot Sade with your heartwood hunting bow and hit for 124 (-2) damage!
[15:21:55] You shot Sade with your heartwood hunting bow and hit for 113 (-2) damage!
[15:21:58] You shot Sade with your heartwood hunting bow and hit for 141 (-2) damage!
[15:22:01] You shot Sade with your heartwood hunting bow and hit for 114 (-2) damage!
[15:22:04] You shot Sade with your heartwood hunting bow and hit for 137 (-2) damage!
chat_arc25_AF50_273_99%_2%resists_tranchant => notice
http://pastebin.com/qCAAF9yd
Overall coherent damage increase even reaching cap damage for a lvl 25 bow on 45+8 bow spec with the lowered AF (102=>50, same quality, same type, same stats on target, same resists, same weapon, same bonus -none- on weap and armor)
[15:23:39] You shot Sade with your heartwood hunting bow and hit for 185 (-5) damage!
[15:23:43] You shot Sade with your heartwood hunting bow and hit for 185 (-3) damage!
[15:23:46] You shot Sade with your heartwood hunting bow and hit for 185 (-5) damage!
[15:23:52] You shot Sade with your heartwood hunting bow and hit for 185 (-5) damage!
chat_arc25_AF4_99%_22_2%resists_tranchant => notice
http://pastebin.com/XMRVg1Z4
Increased coherent damages taken outside the cap due to lowered AF at minima (AF 4, still 99% quality, no bonus, no resists except racials, etc ...)
[15:25:54] You shot Sade with your heartwood hunting bow and hit for 185 (-15) damage!
[15:25:59] You shot Sade with your heartwood hunting bow and hit for 185 (-14) damage!
[15:26:03] You shot Sade with your heartwood hunting bow and hit for 185 (-13) damage!
[15:26:08] You shot Sade with your heartwood hunting bow and hit for 185 (-14) damage!
chat_arc25_af0_1_2%resist_tranchant => notice
http://pastebin.com/zLT0bcyZ
[15:29:05] You shot Sade with your heartwood hunting bow and hit for 185 (-15) damage!
[15:29:08] You shot Sade with your heartwood hunting bow and hit for 185 (-16) damage!
[15:29:34] You shot Sade with your heartwood hunting bow and hit for 185 (-15) damage!
[15:29:38] You shot Sade with your heartwood hunting bow and hit for 185 (-18) damage!
going from 185 +13/15 (198/200) to 185 +15/18 (200/203) => around 1/2,5% increase in the best case scenario
Coherent to AF loss (22 => 1) but incoherent to ABS loss !! (10% => 0), damages should be around : 200 /0,9 = 222 +/- 1% considering observed variance : 220/224 for a log total of 185 (-35/39)
Tests were done with a lvl 25 99% bow and 99% armor, no bonuses on all, to lower the variance impact on damages and increase the actual seen effect of armor absorption and still keep the damages differences within sufficient margins to pop the incoherence out
All tests were done with max bonus arrows and neutral types (slash) on alb leather to keep them coherent with one another outside the Armor resistance scope
To further verify, we made some tests with all arrow types on a AF 50 armor, with 15% bonus enchantement on bow and armor (here are only the pastebins)
chat_arc25_af50_noBonus_allDamageTypes_slash_thrust_crush => http://pastebin.com/kPhLufuQ
chat_arc25_af50_15%bonus weap_allDamageTypes_crush_thrust_slash => http://pastebin.com/pMXSgtu1
chat_arc25_af50_bonusWeapAndarmor15%_allDamageTypes_slash_thrust_crush => http://pastebin.com/5eQ9NQzB
We also did some tests on wizard taking damages with/without AF / Abs => were coherent with those : AF changing damages, Abs not doing it's job to the awaited amount (i'm afraid i wasn't the one supposed to keep track of those logs so i haven't got them ^^)
Pfiuuu ... that was a long one :) hope it will help the community to make Uthgard greater !!
PS : we should be carefull with new DaoC on live as per some Grab bags i read notified that they twinked the damages/class/game mechanics to a certain point ("tiny adjustments" till they changed "a lot of things with overall class modifications" around 1.90 and/or 1.110 -did not follow up to that point :p-)
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