I think people are doing the whole 8v8 issue is "we are better than you" is a moot point uthgard is going to be a busy server your not going to be finding small skirmishes like on live your going to be finding a lot of people crammed into the same areas and if you "choose" to not add on fights then your already going to disadvantage yourself and your realm mates.

Game is Realm vs Realm not 8 man vs 8 man.

From my experience from live the honorable players got to those high realm ranks 1 way and that is adding on fights none of the rr8's i knew had 100% solo kills nearly all of them added on fights were on keep raids.

If you choose to put together the key 8man your going to be at an early disadvantage especially on albion hib group bard druid warden, all resists end and speed and cc. Mid Healer shaman healer skald speed end cc heals. Albion to do the same, palladin, friar, cleric cleric, minstrel. thats over half your group filled.

a paladin can cover the resists from the friar with a chant it can provide endurance to move at speed 6 if necesary OR if you drop the minstrel to run on sorc / theug speed i think its around speed 4 with sprint. Paladins give flexibility to alb groups.

imamizer wrote:Even for full PvE, 50 shield is waste of points unless you will be the guardbot for another pala 7/24. You can have %7,5 more dmg avoidance with the same amount of points.

50 shield, 4 parry => +25% block, +2% parry (27 total)
42 shield, 27 parry => +21% block, +13,5% parry (34,5 total)

To be fair, I think as a paladin you are going to find yourself as a guardbot close enough to 24/7 to make the extra 4% block chance worthwhile.

NikonTC wrote:

imamizer wrote:Even for full PvE, 50 shield is waste of points unless you will be the guardbot for another pala 7/24. You can have %7,5 more dmg avoidance with the same amount of points.

50 shield, 4 parry => +25% block, +2% parry (27 total)
42 shield, 27 parry => +21% block, +13,5% parry (34,5 total)

To be fair, I think as a paladin you are going to find yourself as a guardbot close enough to 24/7 to make the extra 4% block chance worthwhile.

That was about pve obviously since you don't need parry for RvR (unless solo). In pve groups you tank so that ppl can use positionals and you can't be your own guardbot.

imamizer wrote:Even for full PvE, 50 shield is waste of points unless you will be the guardbot for another pala 7/24. You can have %7,5 more dmg avoidance with the same amount of points.

50 shield, 4 parry => +25% block, +2% parry (27 total)
42 shield, 27 parry => +21% block, +13,5% parry (34,5 total)

Even though your point is valid, that's not how it works, and the difference between both spec is smaller.

With 50 shield and 4 parry, the total is 26.5%.
With 42 shield and 27 parry, the total is 31.665%.

And that difference gets even smaller if you take +skill, RAs and dexterity into consideration (less than 2% for a RR5 with some MoP / MoB, capped dex and +11 shield).

Basically, Parry comes first, and only if Parry fails Shield is used. If you have 50% block chance and 50% parry chance, you won't have 100% chance of avoiding a blow but 75%.

imamizer wrote:The only downside is not getting into the competitive 8man groups, that's it.

As for every class, this depends on:
- Your Spec
- How good you understand your role and your group understands your role
- Playstyle and Skill
- How open minded your group is (Biggest problem to solve!)

Paladin IS great!
- Endureg (Endupots as the only compensation possible)
- Amazing Peel on 44 thrust (As far as I know the best peel style on Albion, only downside -> 2 hits needed!)
- Great Slam-Bot
- Resi chants
- Revive (with mana beeing a huge problem on 1.65, this is a viable point quite no one is regarding, Pala doesn't need that mana anyway )
- Group Instant (RA)

Biggest Contra argument is the missing Determination. In case you see your role as a defensive peeler, this won't be that kind of a problem.
A. You stay in defense, which reduces the chance of getting Root (biggest nightmare)
B. If you get rooted in a defensive position, you may be disabled, but not in danger. Every other teammate around that gets hit by anything (melee, pet), can free you in no matter of time (Intercept).
C. There still is something called Purge.

Non TS random pugs, could have problems with B., while it should be manageable for every fixed group.

I think the communities major problem is, that we compare with other path situations, mostly those which were better than the actual situation.

We have a Paladin (44 thrust / 42 shield / 46 Chants) in our guild pug and it works great!

For Slash-Paladins, I see their utility for 8man RvR massively reduced.


Greetings.

I have a different perspective. I'm planning on 2h spec a lot of people dont talk about. As a peeler I think its best. Side snare (only 1 hit) with a follow up 9 sec stun. Anytime attack speed debuff. I know I will never be a main tank; however, I think 2h spec will be the best peeler. What do you guys think?

hbrittan43 wrote:I have a different perspective. I'm planning on 2h spec a lot of people dont talk about. As a peeler I think its best. Side snare (only 1 hit) with a follow up 9 sec stun. Anytime attack speed debuff. I know I will never be a main tank; however, I think 2h spec will be the best peeler. What do you guys think?

Check out Raifs hybrid spec. viewtopic.php?f=107&t=40291

I am curious to see it in action.


I see two 2h style combinations (I don't know if the values are correct):
Onslaught (Side: 14 sec / 60%) + Two Moon (9 sec stun)
or
Doubler (Back: 12 sec / 60%) + Sund & Moon (7 sec stun)

A stun right after the peel is a waste of snare-duration, so no valid argument for me.


in comparison to (44 thrust):
Tranquilize (Any) + Wyvernfang (27 sec / 60%)

2h Peeler:
+ One style to peel
+ possibly more damage
- 12/14 sec snare
- Low atk speed (possibly problems to peel with pbt running)
- Only position styles to peel
- no guard / only peel while guard (hybrid spec) = 21 slash side peel

44 Thrust:
+ 27 sec snare
+ fast attack speed (less problems with pbts)
+ guard while peel (really viable against Savages)
- low damage
- 2 styles for peel

My personal choice:
Due to missing Determination, any offensive role (e.g. full 2h) would be no choice for me.
Damage is quite a low priority argument for a defensive peeler (not talking about Arms or Mercs).
Timer are a real thing.
I would always prefer 27 sec snare (Repeat it to yourself, 27 sec snare for tanks/offtanks) over 14 sec snare, even if its harder to set it.
Full 2h and hybrid 2h Palas would looe big parts of their PvE quality, what I wouldn't want.
Also, getting a s/s Paladin into a 8x8 group is hard enough, try it after you tell them you are full 2h (hybrid if you are not Raifs ).

I would really be interested in the answers for the following 2 question:
How big is the 2h Peel Endu usage? (yes, Palas can get Endu problems )
How much differs the weapon factor / to hit chance for 44 thrust, 36 2h and 50 2h?
Would be interesting to know and help to decide.

Greetings