th0msdk wrote:What is your name ingame? Pretty much doubt you remember v1.65 or you're even 50 yet on uthgard 2, otherwise you wouldn't be spilling such bullshit on the SB forum.. It sounds to me like you compare Live patch spec to uthgard 2..

He doesn't dare to say, even takes cheap shots and butthurt about some fins drama?

Pro tip, stop embarrassing yourself.

TreeHugginHibby wrote:Is it possible to still level if I was to swap to Critblade at 20?

18 CS
16 Sword
15 Poison

Is Garrote just super expensive to spam as an anytime?

I would normally group with friends, but in the case I have to solo are the CS styles just too expensive? My only options, since I won't have stealth until 48, would be Pincer (assuming I can get a side hit), Hamstring (on evade), and Garrote for anytime spammage.

It does seem like LA is the good way to level, but it seems more boring since you're basically a Vendoless Zerker.

People used to level with CS also, using Pincer with 2-hand; massive hits but yeah, you gotta sidestyle your way up to 40.

udsevenzz wrote:

TreeHugginHibby wrote:Is it possible to still level if I was to swap to Critblade at 20?

18 CS
16 Sword
15 Poison

Is Garrote just super expensive to spam as an anytime?

I would normally group with friends, but in the case I have to solo are the CS styles just too expensive? My only options, since I won't have stealth until 48, would be Pincer (assuming I can get a side hit), Hamstring (on evade), and Garrote for anytime spammage.

It does seem like LA is the good way to level, but it seems more boring since you're basically a Vendoless Zerker.

People used to level with CS also, using Pincer with 2-hand; massive hits but yeah, you gotta sidestyle your way up to 40.

So Garrote is just not useful as an anytime? It seems to have the second best anytime growth rate, second to the H2H Taunt. In a party it wouldn't matter because I'd most likely be spamming Pincer since there should be a tank and have END from Shaman, but in the off chance I'm solo I just wanted to see if my END pool could handle say, a yellow, spamming Hamstring with Garrote as backup at level 20. Even Hamstring has a better growth rate than Comeback from LA.

It does look like LA gets a better group DPS style in Snowsquall (29) back attack, has .05 better growth than Pincer and as long as you are always hitting the side or back LA would start to out DPS CS. At 44 it gets a follow up increasing the DPS gap a bit more, but Garrote gets a follow up which makes it an anytime chain that is only 0.1 behind the Snowsquall chain that requires being behind the target.

I'm approaching this from both PvE and RvR perspectives since I will have to do a lot of both. And if CS won't gimp me at 20 then I'd rather go CS/Sword/Venom at 20 and just work my way up from there.

Well that's some good research there, I'm happy with LA to 40 so you should try yours and share the experience

Equipping a leftaxe lowers the cap damage you can deal (down to 66% of standard), even when using styles of other skill lines. Spending points in the left axe skill lowers variance on offhand hits, and raises cap damage up to nearly balance, 0.3% each point spent (+ from items only influences variance of offhand hits).
So, going CS is really worth if you don't equip an offhand weapon (2h or 1h+shield). That will deal cap damage. But if you want to benefit from the penalty to evade you inflict to the enemy when dualwielding, be prepared to see your damage cap lowered, unless you spend points into leftaxe skill to raise it back.

Approaching 50 on my SB.

Still going for 35sth / 35env / 36axe / 39LA / 34CS. I'll report back in a couple of weeks after I've done some RvR on it. There is no doubt that it will be tough with this spec initially, seeing as I need a few RR's before I cap a couple of things, additionally getting a proper SB template put together is tough.

Most people I've bounced ideas with ingame seem to believe that LA in negligible (partially due to this thread), which I simply cannot agree with. For any type of duels the followup evade stun is so insane, not to forget that if a target is already stunned the backstyle growth rate is higher than what you find in the regular weapon lines.

th0msdk wrote:Your CS styles does not do less damage. It was not untill version 1.75+ or something(don't really remember), that you needed LA in order to maximize your damage output on SB's CS specline.

th0msdk wrote:If you're in doubt, ask yourself why SB's got a nerf in later patches, so they needed to spec LA. And that was not until ToA arrived, ahead of uthgard current patch.
And i remember this, cause i logged in on Camlann pvp server, Stygian Delta zone in ToA, found out about the nerfs, and it was the worst day of my SB career.

I know you are probably very annoyed by this topic by now, but could you please lookup the patch when these changes happened and clarify this once and for all? I looked at all patch notes from 1.65 to 1.86 (Introduction of LotM) on camelotherald and nowhere was anything about these changes you're talking about.

Just claiming something without evidence other than personal experience is not helping anybody. Players who are just looking for advice on how to spec are not any smarter after reading this thread because they have no way to be sure about who is right and who is not.

I really hope somebody will test this and provide chatlogs and/or screenshots as evidence, that would be a great help.

I know you are probably very annoyed by this topic by now, but could you please lookup the patch when these changes happened and clarify this once and for all? I looked at all patch notes from 1.65 to 1.86 (Introduction of LotM) on camelotherald and nowhere was anything about these changes you're talking about.

That's because he is wrong. What Fiordiluna said is correct info. If you dont raise LA you will always do 66 % Damage while equiping an LA.

l00ri wrote:

I know you are probably very annoyed by this topic by now, but could you please lookup the patch when these changes happened and clarify this once and for all? I looked at all patch notes from 1.65 to 1.86 (Introduction of LotM) on camelotherald and nowhere was anything about these changes you're talking about.

That's because he is wrong. What Fiordiluna said is correct info. If you dont raise LA you will always do 66 % Damage while equiping an LA.

You guys are high as fuk ... Jesus

Beside the patch wasn't a change. It was a bugfix or something iirc, that changed it, so sb's was required to spec LA in order to get "to-hit" chance on your offhand.. If u dont spec LA in 1.65, the only damage that will be lowered, is your off-hand.
Your mainhand will still be higher with 44sword, and you'll still need your +11 in offhand just to increase damage slighty...

Unless uthgard uses another code than classic regarding sbs, which i highly doubt, you're free to go full-on Critblade...


THIS IS CLASSIC, NOT LIVE.... GET THAT INTO YOUR HEAD PLEASE

l00ri wrote:

That's because he is wrong. What Fiordiluna said is correct info. If you dont raise LA you will always do 66 % Damage while equiping an LA.

On the offhand.

udsevenzz wrote:

l00ri wrote:

That's because he is wrong. What Fiordiluna said is correct info. If you dont raise LA you will always do 66 % Damage while equiping an LA.

On the offhand.

Yup, I tested this as well when I respecced from shadowzerk to crit blade. I killed about 20 blue con mobs on each spec and took down the damage before and after the respec.

CS hit considerably harder than the left axe styles. My left hand dmg was *slightly* lower, but the style dmg I did was much much higher. And the overall dmg was higher when styling.

The auto attack dmg was the only thing that was slightly lower as a crit blade.

Wellzy wrote:
Yup, I tested this as well when I respecced from shadowzerk to crit blade. I killed about 20 blue con mobs on each spec and took down the damage before and after the respec.

CS hit considerably harder than the left axe styles. My left hand dmg was *slightly* lower, but the style dmg I did was much much higher. And the overall dmg was higher when styling.

The auto attack dmg was the only thing that was slightly lower as a crit blade.

Finally someone who actually listened to me, and tested it out. Instead of talking out of their rear, like alot seems to do.

Thank you sir.



And to this poster.....

Fiordiluna wrote:Equipping a leftaxe lowers the cap damage you can deal (down to 66% of standard), even when using styles of other skill lines. Spending points in the left axe skill lowers variance on offhand hits, and raises cap damage up to nearly balance, 0.3% each point spent (+ from items only influences variance of offhand hits).
So, going CS is really worth if you don't equip an offhand weapon (2h or 1h+shield). That will deal cap damage. But if you want to benefit from the penalty to evade you inflict to the enemy when dualwielding, be prepared to see your damage cap lowered, unless you spend points into leftaxe skill to raise it back.

Like i've said over and over, CS don't benefit/penalize from LA specline, in version 1.65(You seem to forget we play classic, and not live).. Except for the offhand damage
Thanks for trying to screw up an entire SB community

Yes but you know nothing Jon Snow.

What about the evade stun chain of LA? Isn't that worth taking 39LA?
I remember critblades being very strong back in the days, I just can't remember not having evade stun chain :-\

Parsley wrote:What about the evade stun chain of LA? Isn't that worth taking 39LA?
I remember critblades being very strong back in the days, I just can't remember not having evade stun chain :-\

What is more important to you in a 1v1, raw damage, or rely on a stun you *might* land in a fight.

I have out damaged a dragonfang as a critblade many times. If you spec LA for the stun your leaving the fight up to luck. I would rather have the damage to win fights.

CS is not just about the PA. The combat styles hit very hard and the hammy chain is unmatched. The chain also gives you insane defensive bonuses.