Uthgard • View topic - Which Weapon Style, and LW or CS for a tank?

Which Weapon Style, and LW or CS for a tank?

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Heskey Warder Posts: 24 Joined: Feb 27, 2017 21:54	Reply with quote by Heskey » Mar 01, 2017 02:20 Hi all, New to Uthgard, new to treating DAoC like a game where numbers count instead of just running around and having fun (simpler times)... I have made a Firbolg Hero (+10 STR/DEX/QUI) with the aim of being a tank, and I have some questions: 1.) I'm thinking of going 50 LW or CS / 42 Shield / 39 Weapon. Should the Weapon be Slash or Crush? 2.) I like to invest in what makes a class unique - Celtic Spear in this case... but every thread I've read says I should go LW instead because instead of just being Pierce damage, I can swap between weapons to do 2H Crush or Slash damage and use my shield to slam people and then use the 50 back-style skill to rain the pain. Is this so important? Would I be so much worse-off using Celtic Spear? 3.) Am I right in thinking that Celtic Spear damage is Piercing, but based 100% on Strength? 4.) Some people have suggested taking 50 LW, 42 Shield, 39 CS and 6 Weapon Skill so that I can slam enemies, hit them with 3 weapon types, and switch back to my shield to block blows... How does this work in PvE? It sounds like a micro-nightmare, and not very fun to play? I envisaged being a tank being all about sword/board, standing there holding the line - not going block/wep switch/massive attack/switch back to shield/block/repeat? Sounds too much like hard work for a game?! Thanks for your help. "We accept only optimal classes into XP groups then wonder at 50 why we have a realm full of meta." - Random Player

Scientist Guardian Posts: 4 Joined: Feb 23, 2017 19:40	Reply with quote by Scientist » Mar 01, 2017 03:16 From my understanding, you want 50 LW 50 Shield (for shield joust) 10 blades (side snare) rest parry. I think the major contention is 42 shield vs 50 shield and what you could do with those extra points. If you are really thinking you might have 3 weapon skills (shield, lw, CS/blades) you have to decide how often you're going to be switching between them and if it's really worth it. I am currently planning what i said above.

Evinac Gryphon Knight Posts: 262 Joined: Dec 14, 2016 04:19	Reply with quote by Evinac » Mar 01, 2017 21:48 #3 - yes, CS dmg is 100% based on str Shield styles have their own weapon skill and do not depend on 1handed spec, hence the spec with 50 shield and 10 blades. 10 blades is only for the side snare style to peel in rvr, nothing else - just use a faster blades weapon and a few misses won't be so bad. 50 shield 10 blades is primarily a pvp spec tho and you won't be landing too many blades taunt styles on legion or dragon with 10 blades. Evinak - Eldritch Evinac - Hero <Blazed>

Nemi Myrmidon Posts: 136 Joined: Feb 09, 2017 15:33	Reply with quote by Nemi » Mar 02, 2017 00:12 constantly Hot swapping weapons mid combat isnt exactly fun. Celtic Spear has the back snare, LW doesnt. Personally Im planning to go 50 CS, 42 shield, rest blades

barto22 Phoenix Knight Posts: 1489 Joined: Feb 06, 2011 23:07	Reply with quote by barto22 » Mar 02, 2017 00:43 Putting points into parry is pretty wasteful. You will seldom see the benefit. Also the difference between 42 and 50 shield is 4% block rate. So you should decide whether you believe the spec point investment #worthit. It depends how you wish to play and what you deem to be fun. Fun for me is being the very best I can be by being as efficient as possible. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk My mind’s made up, don’t confuse me with facts. You mustn't assume that your personal situation is a reflection of every other person that has logged in to Uthgard.

Kaziera Gryphon Knight Posts: 221 Joined: May 09, 2015 12:47	Reply with quote by Kaziera » Mar 02, 2017 23:00 It is not correct that shield has its own weaponskill. Shield weaponskill is 1h based. So 6 or 10 points into 1h will seriously cripple your defense penetration

Damsjp Warder Posts: 33 Joined: Dec 10, 2016 01:57	Reply with quote by Damsjp » Mar 03, 2017 01:09 Heskey wrote:Hi all, New to Uthgard, new to treating DAoC like a game where numbers count instead of just running around and having fun (simpler times)... I have made a Firbolg Hero (+10 STR/DEX/QUI) with the aim of being a tank, and I have some questions: 1.) I'm thinking of going 50 LW or CS / 42 Shield / 39 Weapon. Should the Weapon be Slash or Crush? 2.) I like to invest in what makes a class unique - Celtic Spear in this case... but every thread I've read says I should go LW instead because instead of just being Pierce damage, I can swap between weapons to do 2H Crush or Slash damage and use my shield to slam people and then use the 50 back-style skill to rain the pain. Is this so important? Would I be so much worse-off using Celtic Spear? 3.) Am I right in thinking that Celtic Spear damage is Piercing, but based 100% on Strength? 4.) Some people have suggested taking 50 LW, 42 Shield, 39 CS and 6 Weapon Skill so that I can slam enemies, hit them with 3 weapon types, and switch back to my shield to block blows... How does this work in PvE? It sounds like a micro-nightmare, and not very fun to play? I envisaged being a tank being all about sword/board, standing there holding the line - not going block/wep switch/massive attack/switch back to shield/block/repeat? Sounds too much like hard work for a game?! Thanks for your help. 1) You should go for 42 shield only if you choose to go for 50 LW and 38/39 CS. Why 39 1h ? you not gonna use your 1h, the only one usefull is 10 blade for side snare. 2) If you compare roughly 6 CS snare back and 50 LW stun back dmg without count resist armor... you lose around 20% dmg(for a spe 50 CS / 50 LW). Ofc this is just damage wise, the reverse is if you chain peel back with a 6 CS SPE you will just peel, not damage. 3) 100% STR 4) if you not sure to be able to do it just go for basic SPE for start then you can respec later. because yes you will need to switch a lot to be efficient. Rather play Something easy if you dont feel it than starting play hard but 50%. Kaziera wrote:It is not correct that shield has its own weaponskill. Shield weaponskill is 1h based. So 6 or 10 points into 1h will seriously cripple your defense penetration This is actually interesting. I m doing a video to show the HUGE miss rate everytime I want to slam in RvR. Especially opening slam. I know about BT ect this is not it (and write in log anyway). I m not sure this is about my 10+1 blade because I never had such a miss rate either way with my paladin on 1.0 and hero on genesis but still I wonder... Also the animation is different. Previously uth 1.0 I had my character landing a slam but in "Wind" but still animation. Now its just a basic miss from the sword landing. Anyone feels same regarding miss rate from slam ? Twitch Damsjp Uth 2.0 Tydowen \| Paladin \| Uth 1.0 Dralek \| Hero \| Genesis

barto22 Phoenix Knight Posts: 1489 Joined: Feb 06, 2011 23:07	Reply with quote by barto22 » Mar 03, 2017 01:23 Kaziera wrote:It is not correct that shield has its own weaponskill. Shield weaponskill is 1h based. So 6 or 10 points into 1h will seriously cripple your defense penetration This is only true for Albion. This is not the case for heroes. Blade spec should have no influence in shield def pen. My mind’s made up, don’t confuse me with facts. You mustn't assume that your personal situation is a reflection of every other person that has logged in to Uthgard.

Kaziera Gryphon Knight Posts: 221 Joined: May 09, 2015 12:47	Reply with quote by Kaziera » Mar 03, 2017 05:24 well try it. imo its true for hib too.

Kaizen Warder Posts: 49 Joined: Jun 24, 2013 14:30	Reply with quote by Kaizen » Mar 03, 2017 09:57 viewtopic.php?f=15&t=15557&start=15 Weia wrote:http://www.camelotherald.com/more/3160.shtml Q) It had been said in a previous Grab Bag that Weaponskill was tricky in that it was not actually used in calculations, but used many of the same variables. This brings me to my question - What exactly IS weaponskill? What is it calculated from, and what similarities and differences does it share with the calculations from damage output? A) Weaponskill is not actually used in calculations, this is true. It is heuristic, a number derived from a simplified formula that is used to aid you in determining how your damage output will be affected by changes in your character. It can not be used as an exact determination of how effective your damage or defense penetration is, but it will give you a ballpark idea. If you're looking to get in to the nitty gritty of how your character works, it is best to ignore weaponskill and focus on actual damage done. http://www.camelotherald.com/more/3090.shtml Q) What affects the rate of hitting someone with your shield with shield styles? A) The style itself, as well as the level of the user/target affects hit/miss rates. Shield weaponskill derived from stats like dex and shield spec will aid in penetrating block/parry/evade, but will not affect hit/miss rates. http://www.camelotherald.com/news/news_article.php?t=grabbag&storyid=3835 What determines how weaponskill penetrates defenses? "Weaponskill on your character's paper doll is essentially an abstraction of a number of different offensive attributes tied into your main weapon line (specialty lines, like shield and dual wield, will not be shown on the paper doll, but do have weaponskill values of their own). There is no direct formula for how weaponskill impacts defences, but each of the individual components that makes up weaponskill will impact your ability to penetrate defenses. Generally speaking, the higher your weaponskill, the better your defense penetration." http://www.camelotherald.com/newfrontiers/realmabilities/index2.php, under the point "Dodger" "One exception - when that infiltrator is fighting a class with high weapon skill, like a hero or warrior. In this case, the infiltrator's chance to evade is modified downward by the tank's weapon skill." So there should be some connection, although it's probably complicated

Heskey Warder Posts: 24 Joined: Feb 27, 2017 21:54	Reply with quote by Heskey » Mar 05, 2017 22:24 Thanks for your help all. I ended up going Firbolg, +10 STR/DEX/QUI Went CS/Shield to 10, and now aiming for 50 LW / 42 Shield / 38 CS / 10 Blades / 4 Parry. "We accept only optimal classes into XP groups then wonder at 50 why we have a realm full of meta." - Random Player

Jayhawker Warder Posts: 23 Joined: Jan 23, 2017 11:19	Reply with quote by Jayhawker » Dec 03, 2017 07:20 OK, I am confused. So specing into pierce doesn't help CS dmg? or specing into blunt dosn't help Crush LW dmg?

Elodus Myrmidon Posts: 84 Joined: Feb 08, 2017 02:43	Reply with quote by Elodus » Dec 03, 2017 10:15 Jayhawker wrote:OK, I am confused. So specing into pierce doesn't help CS dmg? or specing into blunt dosn't help Crush LW dmg? Correct. Only Alb has to do that. Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk Motark - Runemaster <Shocker>