So a guildmate has been looking in /b for about 2 weeks now for a Spellcrafter and none are accepting orders. I can understand why. This crafting system is TERRIBLE (We've since started up a few SCrs).

Why hasn't Uthgard adopted some of the changes in live? If you changed the system to where you did not need 99/100% gems for OC, I think a lot more spell crafters would take "orders". The way SC is right now, I definately will not be taking SC orders at LEG/LGM.

There are a lot of changes on the live servers that have just made perfect sense (group endur for mid due to the 20 buff limit and the gem change for SC).

I love the "old school" feel, but some things were changed because they were absoloutley backwards :p

/rant off

I proposed a general crafting speed increase, which was rejected due to being "unnecessary".

In either case, spellcrafting is indeed probably the worst crafting profession there is. Making the need for 99%-100% gems unnecessary to succesfully overcharge would indeed a LOT and would make all crafting in general so much more worth it and might even be more of a relief to anyone looking forward to SC something him-/herself than just a crafting speed increase.


Question is whether staff still thinks this would be yet another "unnecessary" change.

as much as I would like the SC change it would open up for what I consider lame easymode changes (like the shaman end chant change in this case) so I would rather stick with the old SC system (which is classic and livelike) than to see custom changes because it is "hard"

Well guys, i take sc-orders at an average of 3-5p per set, because well, i need roughly 2-3 hours crafttime and around 1p materialcosts for a full MP set.

And so much time full of boredom costs you.

if you are looking for a spellcrafter, broad is just not the right place imo.

look here and send the ppl in game or pm here in the forum

http://uthgard-server.net/modules.php?n ... pic&t=8661

nixian wrote:as much as I would like the SC change it would open up for what I consider lame easymode changes (like the shaman end chant change in this case) so I would rather stick with the old SC system (which is classic and livelike) than to see custom changes because it is "hard"

There is a difference between "hard" and just plain stupid. This falls more on stupid.

I'll just level our SCr and not take orders. I'm making a suggesting to help the general populace.

Brooms wrote:

nixian wrote:as much as I would like the SC change it would open up for what I consider lame easymode changes (like the shaman end chant change in this case) so I would rather stick with the old SC system (which is classic and livelike) than to see custom changes because it is "hard"

There is a difference between "hard" and just plain stupid. This falls more on stupid.

I'll just level our SCr and not take orders. I'm making a suggesting to help the general populace.

actually it makes sense that a spellcrafter needs to craft some gems of decent quality in order to overcharge an item

it might be "stupid" because it feels like a timesink, but a lot of things are in daoc

lvling, getting rps, raids, crafting, etc

but that is DAoC, and that is why I don't play WoW or similar easymode games

what might be stupid to some might be something to do for others

Esme wrote:if you are looking for a spellcrafter, broad is just not the right place imo.

look here and send the ppl in game or pm here in the forum

http://uthgard-server.net/modules.php?n ... pic&t=8661

While I agree with that being the best way how to do it atm, I still think having to resort to 3rd party tools to get your ingame crafting done because of it being such a boring timesink is just wrong.

Nixian wrote:as much as I would like the SC change it would open up for what I consider lame easymode changes (like the shaman end chant change in this case) so I would rather stick with the old SC system (which is classic and livelike) than to see custom changes because it is "hard"

Well there didn't use to be an AE mana over time spell for mentas untill some later patch either. I don't like the easymode factor of it either, but that's still something ENTIRELY different from spellcrafting even though it's the same concept.

Having to buff people is standard and even part of game balance. Being able to do it all in one spell (without the balance aspect) doesn't really matter anything. It's a matter of 2 seconds compared to 20. Both are an equally trivial timeloss.

Spellcrafting however is just taking an IMMENSE amount of time and concentration. It can take up to 4-5 hours easily for a larger order for no basicly no reason at all. It's not "harder" to craft the set, it just takes a LOT more damn time than it should be taking. Just imagine Alchemy to be influenced by quality... imagine creating a barrel then for instance. I wouldn't even THINK of doing that. Well, spellcrafting is exactly like that and all the timesink does now is make people despise doing it.

nixian wrote:actually it makes sense that a spellcrafter needs to craft some gems of decent quality in order to overcharge an item

it might be "stupid" because it feels like a timesink, but a lot of things are in daoc

lvling, getting rps, raids, crafting, etc

but that is DAoC, and that is why I don't play WoW or similar easymode games

what might be stupid to some might be something to do for others

No dude, you can't compare crafting to ANY of those because they ALL have different aspects besides being a damn waste of time attached to it.

Leveling -> social aspect, character improvement aspect, character control aspect, ...
Raids -> RvR aspect (chances of defenders incing), strength aspect (being able to kill whatever you need to kill), ...
Getting RPs -> I'm not even gonna comment on this one.

You can't start cutting duration in there simply because it would negatively affect those other aspects.


Crafting has NO other aspects, it just has one: being a boring chance lottery. Cutting the time needed to 'win' that lottery would only make it a better use of time and thus generating more entertainment and reward per amount of time invested, which like I said is not the case with any of the above.

Therefore making the link is simply not an argument! I've explained this before...



Nobody is asking to simplify crafting to death by making everyone instant LGM and making MP chances 100% and crafting time 0.1s. All that's being asked for is to remove or at least reduce the "stupid" aspect of crafting, not to stupidly simplify it.

People are willing to put some time and effort in it, but not ALL their time and effort, which is why it's so hard to find a SCer.

Zarkor crafting has 1 important aspect that would be shifted if this was changed

Economy

ingame economy is important to keep balanced to ensure that there isn't an increase in the cashflow which would be bad for everyone too

also crafting also adds to the social aspect.. I have spend hours and hours sitting in TNN chatting with other crafters, guildies, or just good friends while doing my craft work

also crafting adds to the commitment people have to each other making it more likely that people will behave nicely to each other simply because they might have to rely on you for doing your SC work some day

so saying crafting doesn't add to any aspect is just not true

nixian wrote:Zarkor crafting has 1 important aspect that would be shifted if this was changed

Economy

ingame economy is important to keep balanced to ensure that there isn't an increase in the cashflow which would be bad for everyone too

also crafting also adds to the social aspect.. I have spend hours and hours sitting in TNN chatting with other crafters, guildies, or just good friends while doing my craft work

also crafting adds to the commitment people have to each other making it more likely that people will behave nicely to each other simply because they might have to rely on you for doing your SC work some day

so saying crafting doesn't add to any aspect is just not true

Yes, it will affect the economy. More people will wear SCed gear (that doesnt mean capped however). More people will perform better and BG RvR will be more equal.

Now I really don't see this as a bad thing.


Yes, crafting also is influenced by social and commitment aspect, true, but removing the need for quality on gems won't or will barely remove or negatively affect those aspects. You still have to stand there, you still have to interact by taking orders (even more so without the need for gem quality since more SCers will take orders).

Also, none of these aspects are affecting game balance, which makes reducing them slightly a viable option if you look at the gain.



In the end it's all cost & profit. Time is a huge cost, other aspects are a slight profit. Seriously cutting the cost at the expense of a small decrease in profits is definately worth it from a rational point of view.

nixian wrote:Zarkor crafting has 1 important aspect that would be shifted if this was changed

Economy

ingame economy is important to keep balanced to ensure that there isn't an increase in the cashflow which would be bad for everyone too

also crafting also adds to the social aspect.. I have spend hours and hours sitting in TNN chatting with other crafters, guildies, or just good friends while doing my craft work

also crafting adds to the commitment people have to each other making it more likely that people will behave nicely to each other simply because they might have to rely on you for doing your SC work some day

so saying crafting doesn't add to any aspect is just not true

I see the same people asking for SC in chat over and over and over for days. Your "crafting is social" bit is severly flawed. Nobody wants to SC for other people. All of the other crafts can be a "social experience", sure. I have 35 Level 50s, most rr5+ some RR10+ on live. I have LGM'd every craft with the exception of siegecrafting. I do know the difference between a justifiable timesink and ones that are just plain stupid. Mythic changed a lot of things because they made more sense, not to ruin the "old school feel". They succeeded doing that with ToA+.

2-3 hours to SC a suit? Really? I could crap out 2-3 MP pieces of armor in 2-3 hours. It's just tedious and un needed and players are suffering because of it. If you do not know to come to these cluttered beyond belief boards to look for an SC'r that may or may not be on or may or may not have time to do your SC you are SoL.

Zarkor wrote:

nixian wrote:Zarkor crafting has 1 important aspect that would be shifted if this was changed

Economy

ingame economy is important to keep balanced to ensure that there isn't an increase in the cashflow which would be bad for everyone too

also crafting also adds to the social aspect.. I have spend hours and hours sitting in TNN chatting with other crafters, guildies, or just good friends while doing my craft work

also crafting adds to the commitment people have to each other making it more likely that people will behave nicely to each other simply because they might have to rely on you for doing your SC work some day

so saying crafting doesn't add to any aspect is just not true

Yes, it will affect the economy. More people will wear SCed gear (that doesnt mean capped however). More people will perform better and BG RvR will be more equal.

Now I really don't see this as a bad thing.


Yes, crafting also is influenced by social and commitment aspect, true, but removing the need for quality on gems won't or will barely remove or negatively affect those aspects. You still have to stand there, you still have to interact by taking orders (even more so without the need for gem quality since more SCers will take orders).

Also, none of these aspects are affecting game balance, which makes reducing them slightly a viable option if you look at the gain.



In the end it's all cost & profit. Time is a huge cost, other aspects are a slight profit. Seriously cutting the cost at the expense of a small decrease in profits is definately worth it from a rational point of view.

And if anything, the spellcrafting changes would increase social activity. I know this is falling on deaf ears, but it sure feels good to rant about this crap.

It would be enough to actually FIX spellcrafting. On live it was since the release of SC with SI that 2x 99% and 2x 98% gems were a 100% success on 5.5 OC on 99% and 100% quality items (until they changed it completely to easy mode).

From that point of view SC on Uthgard is bugged and not working as designed.

silenced wrote:It would be enough to actually FIX spellcrafting. On live it was since the release of SC with SI that 2x 99% and 2x 98% gems were a 100% success on 5.5 OC on 99% and 100% quality items (until they changed it completely to easy mode).

From that point of view SC on Uthgard is bugged and not working as designed.

I can confirm that. An average quality of 98.5% of 4 gems would guarantee the success of an 5.5 points OC on an level 51 item with 99/100 quality.