Evinac wrote:So just to make sure we're all on the same page here... per the ppl using the "ability", it's ok because it only 1-shots SOME of the time?

Oh and the "don't get hit" defense, love it.

Question: how much dmg does the dmg add chant/buff add on a style like that?

PS: fully templated elf with 26+3 slash resists - 1.2k from Flump with all shields up

I would say that the RA itself is not what grants a chance to 1 hit a soft target. It is a combination of of game mechanics that work in favor of a class with very low utility. Considering the delve is VERY high damage I think the base damage of tundra under normal circumstances is completely reasonable. I would love to see some more math, but its hard to test in a sterile environment due to the timer. If you want to run out from APK and let me hit you "for Science" I'll happily be there waiting.

Yes- Don't get hit! Pre-Kiting and positioning are a clothie's biggest and best defense mechanism. Why do you think it is that Pbuk earns so many rps and is always the last to die, and will shut down an entire tank group, including 2-3 zerkers trying vigorously to get to him to shut him down? He just doesn't get hit, is always pre-kited just far enough, aware of high threat targets. Position better and live longer, that's just common sense. If you think that as a cloth caster ( i have watched Fire Wiz 1 shot bolt a templated shaman btw), that you should should be able to stroll past a troll berserker who is in vendo and using a Very high dmg 10 pt RA with the slowest 2H weaopn and 100% crit chance of upto 100% of dmg + damage adds and should have no risk of death then you are delusional.

Let me paint a picture for you about how tundra normally works. Let say hypothetically you are a high dps caster like i dunno... a wizard and you are confronted with a melee class with no real defense, in moderate but not high AF armor class, who is really just a 1 trick pony like yourself, just pure DPS. He's 500 units away and you see him turn to you, and you know for certain that you can get 2 DDs, not even bolts, off before he gets to you. So instead of pre-kiting you let rip- Boom 480, boom 480. quickcast - halfway through he hits your bladeturn- Boom 480. (keep in mind unbuffed he has 1600 hp ~2200 buffed at full range he might as well just lay down and let you kick him), so he just hopes and prays he has buffs at this point, and he still has done ZERO damage to you. No tanks are there to peel and you're healers are busy, but lucky for you MOC is up.... No problem 15 sec of pure mayhem is about to be unleashed. 3 things can happen at this point and in 2 of the scenarios you still win. 1.You use MOC and he he melts(because he spec'd normal berserker RAs). 2. You use moc. and hes fast enough to change weapon vendo style and hope for a big crit, but doesnt get the crit and hits your for 500-800, and your clarics/bof/sos etc can still save you. 3. He catches the crit and you drop to 0%-15% health. gg.

Honestly if a berserker (who don't have the New RA version of Charge mind you) crossed the entire battlefield to you and uses Tundra- you have already been out played and you don't deserve to be in the fight anyway.

MotaroReloaded wrote:

oLd-Sneakers wrote:Called tundra style.

Warriors got doombringer.

Vendo+5.8 spd dragonfury + tundra style = 1200-1600 dmg depending on qu, asd debuff, and weapon speed. Was same back in the day 1.65.

Mids answer to BoF, SoS etc.

Deal with it

We will , once its fixed as atm its buged dmg beeing too high for a Very High dmg style with 1.34 growth rate.

Let's be realistic here, nothing is being changed with this style on this server - it will 100% stay as is.

It's just a question of how long b4 it gets completely out of hand and people's individual tolerance levels are reached - I figure something along the lines of getting 1-shot by this style 3 times within 1 hour will be my last hour on this server.

Lfeless wrote:

Evinac wrote:So just to make sure we're all on the same page here... per the ppl using the "ability", it's ok because it only 1-shots SOME of the time?

Oh and the "don't get hit" defense, love it.

Question: how much dmg does the dmg add chant/buff add on a style like that?

PS: fully templated elf with 26+3 slash resists - 1.2k from Flump with all shields up

I would say that the RA itself is not what grants a chance to 1 hit a soft target. It is a combination of of game mechanics that work in favor of a class with very low utility. Considering the delve is VERY high damage I think the base damage of tundra under normal circumstances is completely reasonable. I would love to see some more math, but its hard to test in a sterile environment due to the timer. If you want to run out from APK and let me hit you "for Science" I'll happily be there waiting.

Yes- Don't get hit! Pre-Kiting and positioning are a clothie's biggest and best defense mechanism. Why do you think it is that Pbuk earns so many rps and is always the last to die, and will shut down an entire tank group, including 2-3 zerkers trying vigorously to get to him to shut him down? He just doesn't get hit, is always pre-kited just far enough, aware of high threat targets. Position better and live longer, that's just common sense. If you think that as a cloth caster ( i have watched Fire Wiz 1 shot bolt a templated shaman btw), that you should should be able to stroll past a troll berserker who is in vendo and using a Very high dmg 10 pt RA with the slowest 2H weaopn and 100% crit chance of upto 100% of dmg + damage adds and should have no risk of death then you are delusional.

Let me paint a picture for you about how tundra normally works. Let say hypothetically you are a high dps caster like i dunno... a wizard and you are confronted with a melee class with no real defense, in moderate but not high AF armor class, who is really just a 1 trick pony like yourself, just pure DPS. He's 500 units away and you see him turn to you, and you know for certain that you can get 2 DDs, not even bolts, off before he gets to you. So instead of pre-kiting you let rip- Boom 480, boom 480. quickcast - halfway through he hits your bladeturn- Boom 480. (keep in mind unbuffed he has 1600 hp ~2200 buffed at full range he might as well just lay down and let you kick him), so he just hopes and prays he has buffs at this point, and he still has done ZERO damage to you. No tanks are there to peel and you're healers are busy, but lucky for you MOC is up.... No problem 15 sec of pure mayhem is about to be unleashed. 3 things can happen at this point and in 2 of the scenarios you still win. 1.You use MOC and he he melts(because he spec'd normal berserker RAs). 2. You use moc. and hes fast enough to change weapon vendo style and hope for a big crit, but doesnt get the crit and hits your for 500-800, and your clarics/bof/sos etc can still save you. 3. He catches the crit and you drop to 0%-15% health. gg.

Honestly if a berserker (who don't have the New RA version of Charge mind you) crossed the entire battlefield to you and uses Tundra- you have already been out played and you don't deserve to be in the fight anyway.

It's amazing melees even carry weapons. You know all these cloth and leather classes are impossible to get to and hit. It is just by pure luck melees get any kills at all. Too bad there are not game mechanics which allow melee to easily get into and stay in melee range. And what is with this 10 min cool down on Tundra? 10 minutes is like forever. I mean that is like only getting to 1 shot people every 2 fights instead of every fight. That's not fair! How is mid ever going be able to compete?

Lfeless wrote:

MotaroReloaded wrote:My problem with Tundra and the other RA styles is that their growth rate might be too high or something wrong with the base unstyled dmg , leme calculate some , do we have any documentation showing the gr rate? or Very high dmg is all we got?

I'm sure you have no problem running round in sos able to do whatever you like without breaking speed though.

No i m not , its a normal behavior , but hiting with a style that has gr rate 1.34 for 840 dmg on a bard resulting in a 480 unstyled dmg is fuc cked up ! ok??

I havent listed the dmg calculations for you i ve listed them for the ones who can understand them ..devs and again in the bug report which was opened. My unstyled dmg with pole vs a bard is 280 dmg including resists and i m a pole arms 5.8 wpn 370 str fully bufed .. why is a troll with 400 str and 10% increase from relics hiting for 480 dmg?

Evinac wrote:

MotaroReloaded wrote:

oLd-Sneakers wrote:Called tundra style.

Warriors got doombringer.

Vendo+5.8 spd dragonfury + tundra style = 1200-1600 dmg depending on qu, asd debuff, and weapon speed. Was same back in the day 1.65.

Mids answer to BoF, SoS etc.

Deal with it

We will , once its fixed as atm its buged dmg beeing too high for a Very High dmg style with 1.34 growth rate.

Let's be realistic here, nothing is being changed with this style on this server - it will 100% stay as is.

It's just a question of how long b4 it gets completely out of hand and people's individual tolerance levels are reached - I figure something along the lines of getting 1-shot by this style 3 times within 1 hour will be my last hour on this server.

Wount stay as it is m8 because the numbers show it , you have 10 hits from 2 zerkers showing dmg of 780(-200) a total of 1k dmg with a 400+ unstyled dmg + 600+ from the 1.34 gr rate of the style .. unstyled dmg is bogus and i m not even sure that Tundra gr rate should be 1.34 considering they have quickness bufs and 8-10% haste single buf from healer .. they ****** up with the implementation .

Lfeless wrote:

Evinac wrote:So just to make sure we're all on the same page here... per the ppl using the "ability", it's ok because it only 1-shots SOME of the time?

Oh and the "don't get hit" defense, love it.

Question: how much dmg does the dmg add chant/buff add on a style like that?

PS: fully templated elf with 26+3 slash resists - 1.2k from Flump with all shields up

I would say that the RA itself is not what grants a chance to 1 hit a soft target. It is a combination of of game mechanics that work in favor of a class with very low utility. Considering the delve is VERY high damage I think the base damage of tundra under normal circumstances is completely reasonable. I would love to see some more math, but its hard to test in a sterile environment due to the timer. If you want to run out from APK and let me hit you "for Science" I'll happily be there waiting.

Yes- Don't get hit! Pre-Kiting and positioning are a clothie's biggest and best defense mechanism. Why do you think it is that Pbuk earns so many rps and is always the last to die, and will shut down an entire tank group, including 2-3 zerkers trying vigorously to get to him to shut him down? He just doesn't get hit, is always pre-kited just far enough, aware of high threat targets. Position better and live longer, that's just common sense. If you think that as a cloth caster ( i have watched Fire Wiz 1 shot bolt a templated shaman btw), that you should should be able to stroll past a troll berserker who is in vendo and using a Very high dmg 10 pt RA with the slowest 2H weaopn and 100% crit chance of upto 100% of dmg + damage adds and should have no risk of death then you are delusional.

Let me paint a picture for you about how tundra normally works. Let say hypothetically you are a high dps caster like i dunno... a wizard and you are confronted with a melee class with no real defense, in moderate but not high AF armor class, who is really just a 1 trick pony like yourself, just pure DPS. He's 500 units away and you see him turn to you, and you know for certain that you can get 2 DDs, not even bolts, off before he gets to you. So instead of pre-kiting you let rip- Boom 480, boom 480. quickcast - halfway through he hits your bladeturn- Boom 480. (keep in mind unbuffed he has 1600 hp ~2200 buffed at full range he might as well just lay down and let you kick him), so he just hopes and prays he has buffs at this point, and he still has done ZERO damage to you. No tanks are there to peel and you're healers are busy, but lucky for you MOC is up.... No problem 15 sec of pure mayhem is about to be unleashed. 3 things can happen at this point and in 2 of the scenarios you still win. 1.You use MOC and he he melts(because he spec'd normal berserker RAs). 2. You use moc. and hes fast enough to change weapon vendo style and hope for a big crit, but doesnt get the crit and hits your for 500-800, and your clarics/bof/sos etc can still save you. 3. He catches the crit and you drop to 0%-15% health. gg.

Honestly if a berserker (who don't have the New RA version of Charge mind you) crossed the entire battlefield to you and uses Tundra- you have already been out played and you don't deserve to be in the fight anyway.

Ok, right of the bat:

- No signature, no idea who you are = minimum credibility
- My signature indicates hib - i can't really exit an apk... no BoF, no SoS...

My eld is light, even if i did have MoC and used it while a vendo'ed zerker is on me, i would be dead b4 the 3rd cast, after the first 2 would hit for 250 (-250) - if both actually land and not get resisted - big IF.

And you're defending one-shotting players cuz u have to somehow manage to perform the following difficult tasks:
- break pbt
- hit vendo button
- hit RA button

Give me a fking break, just lul.

And that's a nice, clean open field fight you described there. In that perfect scenario for a caster grp, yes allowing a melee to get anywhere within 500 range is completely on the caster - how often do fights play out like that tho? Not very often.

I truly don't care much about posting here, and for that reason have never been active on these forums. Maybe I had recent read someone else's sig. But considering it was my name and a SS of my damage on the original post I thought I would weigh in. Maybe I wasn't as clear as intended before:

In short. I don't think that this will really change the game much, If you realized how rarely this is actually an insta kill there would be little left to say about it. Yes it happens, but defiantly not in every fight or even every 5 fights. You're right, its not a high skill tactic, but click and swing never has been. Before it was Nerf LA damage, then Nerf Doublefrost damage, and now Tundra.. people just don't want to be hit hard by a pure melee dps class. If devs listened to the masses they would just delete the class.

Lfeless wrote:Honestly if a berserker (who don't have the New RA version of Charge mind you) crossed the entire battlefield to you and uses Tundra- you have already been out played and you don't deserve to be in the fight anyway.

Good post & I couldn't agree more with this statement in particular. I realize that a caster/support does not control his positioning 100% of the time in fights, but all of this crying about a 10min CD dice-roll for ONE CLASS (+other planets aligning) is hilarious to me.

Even IF we start to see more 2H Zerker train groups because Flump's dirty lil "secret" is out - who really cares? If you don't know how to control and beat a melee assist train group by 2017, then you really need to consider whether you should even be attempting 8v8 on Uth... js

And no, I don't play Mid, or even own a single melee char... and I'm sure this post will anger some of my realmmates but c'mon guys, get real.

Grunklestank wrote:

Lfeless wrote:Honestly if a berserker (who don't have the New RA version of Charge mind you) crossed the entire battlefield to you and uses Tundra- you have already been out played and you don't deserve to be in the fight anyway.

Good post & I couldn't agree more with this statement in particular. I realize that a caster/support does not control his positioning 100% of the time in fights, but all of this crying about a 10min CD dice-roll for ONE CLASS (+other planets aligning) is hilarious to me.

Even IF we start to see more 2H Zerker train groups because Flump's dirty lil "secret" is out - who really cares? If you don't know how to control and beat a melee assist train group by 2017, then you really need to consider whether you should even be attempting 8v8 on Uth... js

And no, I don't play Mid, or even own a single melee char... and I'm sure this post will anger some of my realmmates but c'mon guys, get real.

Why you fu ck about gameplay ..when i just showed you that the unstyled dmg for Tundra its too high ??? I played a rr8 zerker previous Uthg and we had more str ..Flump was there aswell .. and 2h dmg never hit so hard , its a Very high dmg style ..nothing more and great thing about Tundra is that is a Very High dmg anytimer so yes its worth using it as a finish hit vendo mode , but wtf ppl .. its bugged cause of the unstyled dmg.... too high.

Lfeless wrote:I truly don't care much about posting here, and for that reason have never been active on these forums. Maybe I had recent read someone else's sig. But considering it was my name and a SS of my damage on the original post I thought I would weigh in. Maybe I wasn't as clear as intended before:

In short. I don't think that this will really change the game much, If you realized how rarely this is actually an insta kill there would be little left to say about it. Yes it happens, but defiantly not in every fight or even every 5 fights. You're right, its not a high skill tactic, but click and swing never has been. Before it was Nerf LA damage, then Nerf Doublefrost damage, and now Tundra.. people just don't want to be hit hard by a pure melee dps class. If devs listened to the masses they would just delete the class.

Really? LA nerf wasn't justified? Shadowblades jumping out of stealth to 3-shot scale wearing tanks by simply spamming Doublefrost seemed ok to you? I guess with that logic I can see how you can justify this one-shot mechanic.

Lfeless wrote:...
Why do you think it is that Pbuk earns so many rps and is always the last to die, and will shut down an entire tank group, including 2-3 zerkers trying vigorously to get to him to shut him down?
...

Read #3888

The defense there is even stranger then it is here, considering they actually given tangible evidence.

How it currently works, is really gamebreaking for sure, and then it is the question if it respects determination as it should or not

MotaroReloaded wrote:

Grunklestank wrote:

Lfeless wrote:Honestly if a berserker (who don't have the New RA version of Charge mind you) crossed the entire battlefield to you and uses Tundra- you have already been out played and you don't deserve to be in the fight anyway.

Good post & I couldn't agree more with this statement in particular. I realize that a caster/support does not control his positioning 100% of the time in fights, but all of this crying about a 10min CD dice-roll for ONE CLASS (+other planets aligning) is hilarious to me.

Even IF we start to see more 2H Zerker train groups because Flump's dirty lil "secret" is out - who really cares? If you don't know how to control and beat a melee assist train group by 2017, then you really need to consider whether you should even be attempting 8v8 on Uth... js

And no, I don't play Mid, or even own a single melee char... and I'm sure this post will anger some of my realmmates but c'mon guys, get real.

Why you fu ck about gameplay ..when i just showed you that the unstyled dmg for Tundra its too high ??? I played a rr8 zerker previous Uthg and we had more str ..Flump was there aswell .. and 2h dmg never hit so hard , its a Very high dmg style ..nothing more and great thing about Tundra is that is a Very High dmg anytimer so yes its worth using it as a finish hit vendo mode , but wtf ppl .. its bugged cause of the unstyled dmg.... too high.

Oh you wanted the kindergarten TLDR version? Ok here you go my poppet:

"So what? Learn to play."

Evinac wrote:

Lfeless wrote:I truly don't care much about posting here, and for that reason have never been active on these forums. Maybe I had recent read someone else's sig. But considering it was my name and a SS of my damage on the original post I thought I would weigh in. Maybe I wasn't as clear as intended before:

In short. I don't think that this will really change the game much, If you realized how rarely this is actually an insta kill there would be little left to say about it. Yes it happens, but defiantly not in every fight or even every 5 fights. You're right, its not a high skill tactic, but click and swing never has been. Before it was Nerf LA damage, then Nerf Doublefrost damage, and now Tundra.. people just don't want to be hit hard by a pure melee dps class. If devs listened to the masses they would just delete the class.

Really? LA nerf wasn't justified? Shadowblades jumping out of stealth to 3-shot scale wearing tanks by simply spamming Doublefrost seemed ok to you? I guess with that logic I can see how you can justify this one-shot mechanic.

I'm sorry you are afraid of melee dps classes. The point was that people will always find claim something needs to be nerfed when they fall victim to it.
The reactionary responses don't amuse me and definitely don't aid the conversation . If you care to discuss the topic I will reengage, otherwise Good day sir.

Grunklestank wrote:

Lfeless wrote:Honestly if a berserker (who don't have the New RA version of Charge mind you) crossed the entire battlefield to you and uses Tundra- you have already been out played and you don't deserve to be in the fight anyway.

Good post & I couldn't agree more with this statement in particular. I realize that a caster/support does not control his positioning 100% of the time in fights, but all of this crying about a 10min CD dice-roll for ONE CLASS (+other planets aligning) is hilarious to me.

Even IF we start to see more 2H Zerker train groups because Flump's dirty lil "secret" is out - who really cares? If you don't know how to control and beat a melee assist train group by 2017, then you really need to consider whether you should even be attempting 8v8 on Uth... js

And no, I don't play Mid, or even own a single melee char... and I'm sure this post will anger some of my realmmates but c'mon guys, get real.

I dunno, most battles are not some sterile "ok everyone stand at 2000 paces apart..ready, set..go!" There is CC, speed 6, endo regen, determination, resists, snares, slams, etc... if it was as easy as what you say, no caster would ever die and no melee would ever get kills. We are not all noobs here...You are grasping at straws. We are a small subset of the 1.65 years daoc community. Knowing how much people looked into and tried every little aspect of the game back then I feel confident in saying that if this ability existed then as it does now the IGN forums and such would have been blowing up about it. It would not be reported by the TL as a worthless RA. Let's be real...

Grunklestank wrote:
"So what? Learn to play."

My defender s rage style on arms has 1.399 gr rate , higher then tundra which apears to be 1.34 from the dmg shown .. but i ve never hit any1 so far for 880(-170) .. so stop being a moron , the fact that the style is broken has nothing to do with game play.

MotaroReloaded wrote:My unstyled dmg with pole vs a bard is 280 dmg including resists and i m a pole arms 5.8 wpn 370 str fully bufed .. why is a troll with 400 str and 10% increase from relics hiting for 480 dmg?

Yes with your high quick stats maybe...try to put off all your +quick items, get a red str/con and str buff (no dex/qui buff) and try again against a Berserker or Hunter. They also got 19% absorb plus they are vulernable to slash damage like Bards are vulnerable to crush damage. You will probably also hit them for 350-400 unsyled damage with your 5.8 slash pole. Considering your -30 str and +15 quick (compared to a troll) and the missing 10% relic dmg bonus, you are probably on the same level. Quickness is a big factor here, you will hit very slow but also very hard and this counts for any style, not just for Tundra.

Edit:

MotaroReloaded wrote:My defender s rage style on arms has 1.399 gr rate , higher then tundra which apears to be 1.34 from the dmg shown .. but i ve never hit any1 so far for 880(-170) .. so stop being a moron , the fact that the style is broken has nothing to do with game play.

Defender's Rage got a 1.2 GR if this page is correct -> http://talsyra.tripod.com/daocmechanics/albion_styles.html
And as i already mentioned, your problem is the +75 quick template and your dex/qui buff, if you want to hit harder you should get rid of it....