Heya,...

as far as i know on old RAs "detect hidden" is a ability that costs 6 or 10 points , granting the assasin the ability (passiv) to neutralize the archers stealth,... so assasins that specced it will see every archer on clipping range?!

any chance you know , u ll implent it like this?

so i better stop playing my ranger now?

thx for answers,....

what you mean is SEE HIDDEN..not detect hidden.

and the detection-range on cliprange was a true misstake from mythic/GOA..and was fixed VERY soon to a detection-range similar to MoS4 nowadays.

at least thats what a staffmember said after some researches.
he also said that, if old RA´s come, it will be most likely implemented with the corrected sight.

See hidden cost 8 Realm ability points and granted all classes, that could spec stealth for detect hidden, e.g. assassins, PASSIVE stealth detection for non-detect hidden classes like archers and minstrels on clipping range.

And no, it hasn't been reduced to something like mos4 range, it was always clipping range stealth detection. I know that for sure, because i have been playing an archer almost for the whole period of time since it got introduced with the old RA-system.

There was an effective counter though:
Stealthgroup.

Every archer back in those days was basically grouped. Groups had rather 3-8 members and were no duos. This way protection from see-hidden was ensured AND such a group had ideally much more often the benefits of the archer-Ra True sight. True sight cost 10 Realm points and was an ability, that granted the archer clipping range stealth detection of all stealth classes for 60 seconds every 30 minutes.

So as you can imagine assassin classes won't be from *every* point of view better of, when OF-RAa would be implemented.

Well that doesn't sound good.

In 1.65 the See Hidden RA was like MoS4/5 - Musikus is right.

Archers are also able to counter this with Camouflage.

See Hidden was changed in 1.62

- We have modified how the See Hidden ability interacts with Archer classes. We've varied the range that an assassin can see a non camouflaged hidden archer anywhere from 1/4 to 3/4 of the current range depending on the archer's stealth spec vs the assassin's level. On average this means that an assassin will have to be within about 1/2 the range that he can see the archer from compared to how the system works currently on the live servers.

well but in the end u solo much better as an asssasin than witha an archer?

so assasins may run solo and be lucky to meet solo archers and get free rps , or maybe unlucky and run into a stealther grp ,...

and archers solo , will just spend rps or might time the true sight in right and have a good chance to kill?

kk
^^

An Assassin has better chance to detect Archers with OF RAs than vice versa.

Only Assassins can get "MoS" and Archers only have a 30min-timed "I see them all" button.

This is maybe cause of the fact that archers weren't designed to kill assassins.

not completly true razzer..
archers get MoS too...

and now the big BUT:
archers get MoS 1, 2 and 3

the MoS archers get gives:
5% stealth runspeed per step (max +15% runspeed)

the MoS archers get does not give:
the detection bonus it gives now

so the staff has to implement 2 different MoS
the MoS for assassines
and the MoS for archers

I wrote "MoS" in "" - I was refering to the detection bonus.

MoS in old RA system should be the same for both:

Mastery of Stealth ( 3 6 10 )
Passive
Pre-Req: Augmented Quickness 2
Grants 5% movement speed increase while stealthed per level of this ability.

You need 13 points to run 10% faster - I think it's not worth it.

Assassins need:

See Hidden (8)
passive
Automatically detect stealthed characters that don't have the "Detect Hidden" ability: Scouts, Hunters, Rangers, and Minstrels.

Archers:

True Sight (10)
Active (30 min)
Detect all hidden characters for 60 seconds.

Razzer wrote:In 1.65 the See Hidden RA was like MoS4/5 - Musikus is right.

Archers are also able to counter this with Camouflage.

See Hidden was changed in 1.62

- We have modified how the See Hidden ability interacts with Archer classes. We've varied the range that an assassin can see a non camouflaged hidden archer anywhere from 1/4 to 3/4 of the current range depending on the archer's stealth spec vs the assassin's level. On average this means that an assassin will have to be within about 1/2 the range that he can see the archer from compared to how the system works currently on the live servers.

Thanks Razzer for correcting me. And i mean that.
That is good news indeed.

My question here would be:
Does halving the detection range from clipping range before mean that it would be about 825 locs then?

BUT:
Every assassin would then have like mos5 stealth for 8 points. That is at least very different from now. Imo the core issue thus kinda remains.

I think clipping range is almost 3000 units. This is the range at which the game engine displays a character model, correct?

Since any serious archer will have cap or near-cap stealth, the detection range should be 1/4 or about 750 units. Basically MoS 5 like you said.

Seyha wrote:I think clipping range is almost 3000 units. This is the range at which the game engine displays a character model, correct?

Since any serious archer will have cap or near-cap stealth, the detection range should be 1/4 or about 750 units. Basically MoS 5 like you said.

"from 1/4 to 3/4 of the current range depending on the archer's stealth spec vs the assassin's level"
i read this somewhat different: 1/4 of the clipping range applies when the archer has cap stealth and the assassin is a lot lower in level. 1/2 of clipping range is when the archer has 50 combined stealth and the assassin is lvl50.
this is also how i remember it from live. i had a SB back then and the detection range on archers was alot better than mos5 now.

Thanks for the input, Lev. What a broken ability. That's a 1500 unit detection radius. If the Archer doesn't have camo up he might as well go unstealthed.

Seyha wrote:I think clipping range is almost 3000 units. This is the range at which the game engine displays a character model, correct?

Since any serious archer will have cap or near-cap stealth, the detection range should be 1/4 or about 750 units. Basically MoS 5 like you said.

Seyha wrote:Thanks for the input, Lev. What a broken ability. That's a 1500 unit detection radius. If the Archer doesn't have camo up he might as well go unstealthed.

how does 750 become 1500 within 2 posts?

750 sounds about right

clip range is well over 3000 on never clients
it used to be 3000 with the old engine i guess

Razzer wrote:An Assassin has better chance to detect Archers with OF RAs than vice versa.

Only Assassins can get "MoS" and Archers only have a 30min-timed "I see them all" button.

This is maybe cause of the fact that archers weren't designed to kill assassins.

What are they designed to kill then? Mobs?

Thats is ridiculous. That is no "Fact". That is just some nonsense you have talked yourself into believing. *NEWS FLASH* Any class can kill any other class in this game - there is no "this class was meant to kill this class" crap.
Old realm abilities are inferior in every way to current ones and that is the exact reason they were changed in the first place. Any who does not recognize this has not enough experience\time invested with the game. Same goes for Old Frontiers vs New Frontiers.

You can go to old RA/s and punk out every archer that bothers to log into your server and populate it, but yea... I am totally against this, but you will do what you want to do.