So will this roll back (if implemented) affect the following?

1) Bring back Old Frontiers?

2) Remove all non-classic races and classes (Shrouded Isles)?

3) Lose the improved castles of the New Frontiers (breakaway walls, etc.)

4) Ability to swim underwater?

5) Lose the boats? (I don't recall any waterways in the Old Frontiers.)

6) All other improvements since 1.6x?

I played Mythic's Live servers from the week after the game came out until just a couple months before the New Frontiers was implemented. I enjoyed the old frontiers and have many fond memories of sieges to get relics or meeting a zerg at the mile gates to fend them off.

But I have to say I really enjoy the improvements to the frontiers now that I've had a chance to see what has been done. I like the new castles and towers. I think the boats could make sieges more fun too. And I enjoy playing the Shrouded Isles characters I have (waiting to bring back my Necromancer).

I guess I'm asking Uthgard to go just a little bit forward instead of backward. Just stop short of ToA and I'll be ecstatic.

poplik wrote:why shouldn't offtanks have determination, it it's included in all lists and in daoc charplan

Sorry, no stoicism.

Tam wrote:1) Bring back Old Frontiers?

That's not planned. Although the old frontiers are nice, the layout simply doesn't fit for our playercount.

Tam wrote:2) Remove all non-classic races and classes (Shrouded Isles)?

Of course not.

Tam wrote:3) Lose the improved castles of the New Frontiers (breakaway walls, etc.)

See 1)

Tam wrote:4) Ability to swim underwater?

There is nothing wrong about diving. But even if we would want to change that, we simply couldn't, because that's clientsided.

Tam wrote:6) All other improvements since 1.6x?

Only the class-related changes.[/quote]

Thanks Nayru. I'm not sure how much the classes will change, but as for RAs alone, I guess you can change my vote to the third, unseen option... "Indifferent".

RAs are a nice bonus, but I don't think they make or break the game as a whole. I'll use whatever tools I'm provided with and I'll have fun adjusting my strategy to do the best I can with what I have.

Keep up the great work!

.

Nayru wrote:

poplik wrote:why shouldn't offtanks have determination, it it's included in all lists and in daoc charplan

Sorry, no stoicism.

Tam wrote:1) Bring back Old Frontiers?

That's not planned. Although the old frontiers are nice, the layout simply doesn't fit for our playercount.

I'm not really able to follow the stoicism / det discussion regarding offtanks/hybrids.
I don't know what exactly offtanks are either.

All I know is that: old RAs have only DET, which is given only to fulltanks (75% max).
New RAs have stoic and det, DET is given to all tanks, whereas fulltanks get stoicism aswell.

So the difference in New RAs between fulltanks and hybrids is 25% CC reduction with the same spec.
Old RAs will give up to 75% CC reduction differecne between hybrids and fulltanks.

This is why I was suggesting just give the hybrids in old RAs the new RA setting (max 55%) and the same costs (34 pts to get det 5) because the difference in CC resistance is just overwhelming and will greatly impact the grping utility of the hybrids compared to fulltanks.


About Old Frontiers: the big difference between Agramon with the New Frontiers and the Old Frontiers is not the size, but the known/used routes.

Most of us know the routes in OF, and the ones who don't will quickly learn them since it's so easy. The routes are like an unwritten rule of how to run because the specific routes all lead to a certain MG, which is where the eventual action will be if not on the route itself. There's just a few routes to follow which will tell you whether the RvR zone is populated or not. The travel distance is way shorter than in Agramon allthough the zone is bigger.
Why?
Because there are no such routes in Agramon. Once you enter Agramon it's like picking lottery numbers hoping to pick the same as your opponent. That's why there's a lot more running around going on in Agramon than in OF, people actually have to look around every corner, have to check every spot and hope for inc. In OF, there would be the main routes, which will tell you whether there's someone out there or not, you can even just decide not to do anything at all and camp an MG and you will almost be garanteed on incs, because that is where everyone goes in the end.

I'm just trying to point out that map-size is relative and should be regarded relative instead of absolute, which I think is why you say the layout doesnt fit the playercount. In fact, I think there would be a lot more action with the same player count in OF than in Agramon/NF.
Agramon is a smaller zone, however the zone and routes where u can actually encounter people is way bigger than in OF, where the actual zone is bigger, but the 'inc-zone' is way more compact, HOWEVER leaving room for sideroutes because of it's size.
To sum up:
Agra map-zone < OF map-zone
Agra inc-zone > OF inc-zone.

I just wanted to make this clear and I think a lot of people will agree with me on this one. If this is the reason why we're not having Old Frontiers, then I think it might be a good idea of rethinking it and perhaps adding it to the community converstaion about Old RAs.

Is there a way to do a online voteing?

for the old/new RA's?

each account that logs in, ask them to vote ^^

The ingame players should know what old ra means too, because im sure most of them dont. Maybe lead them to this topic or provide the link with the ra's.

Salidor wrote:Is there a way to do a online voteing?

for the old/new RA's?

each account that logs in, ask them to vote ^^

are you sure it a good choice?

when i see everybody that join uthgard and click on the " i read rules" without reading it. it ll be the same for this poll.

panachier wrote:when i see everybody that join uthgard and click on the " i read rules" without reading it.

Well I can't tell for all others of course, but I'm pretty sure you were not exactly next to me at the moment I clicked that button.

To be fair I'd rather have old frontiers than old RAs. What bothers me is not the quality of the fights (except for SoS & aog on inc ) but rather the quantity. A few pluspoints from my point of view:

+ Say we'd only have Emain there'd be enough room to fight at primetime without getting too big.
+ You have the milegates as chokepoints for stealthers or hotspots at offhours.
+ If you tune down the timers on the porting pads a bit you wouldn't have to wait too long for enemies and you don't create an instant rvr situation.
+ The vicinity of Crauchon and Crimthain for siegefare if need be. If possible put the NF keeps in if it would be a problem with the new siege weapons.
+ You can open up the other realm frontiers too if u want to use the original relic keeps.
+ It would definitely be classic.

Possible downsides as far as I can tell:

- Work! I'm no coder but I can imagine it taking a lot working implenting the old zones/guards/mobs but then again Yggdrasil had this too so maybe they could help out?
- Concentrated action. I don't see it this way but maybe some people wouldn't like the prospect of having to fight in just one zone. We did that in NF Emain and Agra for a while too.
- Siege warfare might be rather limited.
- Aesthetic reasons. Ugly/bored of it/just didn't like/dunno

Anyway as far as I am concerned the pro's outweigh the contras. There might be other downsides that I'd love to hear about. I would like to hear what the staff think about this? Maybe I should make a new topic for this before it gets buried under other posts cause there are other people who feel strongly for OF such as Zarkor's post above.

panachier wrote:

Salidor wrote:Is there a way to do a online voteing?

for the old/new RA's?

each account that logs in, ask them to vote ^^

are you sure it a good choice?

when i see everybody that join uthgard and click on the " i read rules" without reading it. it ll be the same for this poll.

If every person had a chance to vote for it, and the change finaly did happen, No one would have the right to complain after it came. ^^

Also the RA vote was along time ago, people have new thoughts and ideas about it... so i think either have a revote or i think better yet: give a Prompt in game giving 1 Paragraph about the issue and then ask people to vote for either: Old RAs or New Ras, not a yes or no vote tho lol every one would click yes then.

I don't get it why all this qqing ?! its same RvR only with old RAs u need more skill and less RA Dumping ... and maybe some more luck .... ofc mids will have bomb adv and hibs grp purge adv but ill still play as an alb no matter what .... just bring back the old school

unable wrote:I don't get it why all this qqing ?! its same RvR only with old RAs u need more skill and less RA Dumping ... and maybe some more luck .... ofc mids will have bomb adv and hibs grp purge adv but ill still play as an alb no matter what .... just bring back the old school

because you will have sos for 30 seconds while using attack


anyways - id like to change my vote from a yes to a no

simply waaaaaaaaaaay too much we loose if we change over to old RAs

1. all the time staff has used doing new RAs also the time that will be spend on implementing old RAs
2. a LOT of love/nerf balances will be incomming on all the guessed values of RAs
3. A lot of players will simply quit im afraid (hybrids in particular here because they will be semi useless in the "good" 8man setup due to no stoic)
4. a lot of class balance / bug fixes done from 1.65 -> 1.80 (THATS A BIG JUMP GUYS)
5. All things will be pretty much 100% impossible to test and correct? - lets say X realm ability does X but most players thinks it should be Y - how are you gonna test and correct this?


I would rather see staff working on a few things:

1. improving bottle necks for current rvr setting
2. Archery dmg
3. resist/miss/craft/randomness rate on server (if possible)
4. other bugs (like reflex attack reacting on ALL dmg instead of just melee swings)
5. more quests for 15-45 + remaining "new" epic quests

ps. not listed by priority just randomness of my memory

nixian wrote:because you will have sos for 30 minutes while using attack

Yea like there is no other inc on those 30min .... and just fyi our setup is not including minstrels .....

And u have group purge so ..... lets just say OF hibs we're the most OP'd ....

On the other hand i feel like alb hybrids will be more effective with old RA's that they are with new .... i will only miss aotg but ... heck with it ...

my2cents

unable wrote:

nixian wrote:because you will have sos for 30 minutes while using attack

Yea like there is no other inc on those 30min .... and just fyi our setup is not including minstrels .....

And u have group purge so ..... lets just say OF hibs we're the most OP'd ....

On the other hand i feel like alb hybrids will be more effective with old RA's that they are with new .... i will only miss aotg but ... heck with it ...

my2cents

it should have said seconds

as far as i understand alb old RA SOS is a 30 sec duration charge for all classes

and unable - your setup =/= all albs setup

Too much change. Didn't like the camp removal... Wont like the RA change. Thank You to the GMs for having a great server... up til now.

Ganiir 50 Warrior
Ceria 49 Hunter
Coresa 48 Supp SM