I agree on the players being lazy part. I do however also agree that a focule point would be nice to encourage players to visit there more often than other rvr areas. That might encourage players to choose to visit this area and start off the cycle. For example players might get a 10% bonus to rp gain if they are around one of the milegates when they kill an opponent.

CalvoHP wrote:the truth is most players are lazy-impatient, most stealthers who claim to play solo were used to farm low lv players who were left behind from their groups, farm the noobs who were xping in the leprekeen-spiders-knarr (the solo spots near camps).

when i started playing in this server, ther was 1 soloer who i really feared and respected: Runis, avoiding flames and such now i can say that situation has changed, in his favor i can say that he does fight against holzmichel.

animist were camping issue in the milegates.

guess not everything is bad in canceling the camps.

The truth is most players like to have fun not to have 10-20 minutes downtime between fights. Agramon was far from crowded (prime times exlcuded, population was pretty nice then), so i don't understand the need to expand rvr zone. It's gonna be like 8 months ago when there were no porters - arrange grp, buff, take horse to mg - 10 mins. Run around trying to find inc - 10 mins. Lose the fight, back to step one again 20 mins.

Blue's argument that DAOC on live had even more downtime before is not IMO really valid - live server is dead, isn't it ? Players like to find incs quickly to have fast, attractive and adrenaling pumping pvp; name me one current mmorpg that has downtime this big ?

And to answer question about 8v8 prearanged fights - bigger rvr zone, less chance that someone will add your prearanged fight; again people from big guilds are gonna do their farmfests while newbies and newcomers are not gonna get their place in grp. The sentence above is a fact, because i remember being it EXACTLY like this 8 moths ago.

It also saddens me that few forum-huggers from german subforums decide for all the players on this server. I know that staff has their reasons, and wish only the best for this community (it was proven on more then one occasion), but still - this server has ~1-1.5k active players nowadays so it's kinda wierd that 20-30 forum posters decide about major changes like this one.

I agree with Runis 100%.

Me too. I do not play more in agramon, prefer bg.

@Solo players ...

The teleport camp system was an instant pvp system for Solo.

You ported in camp and were just ner the milegat in action... which was far from the RvR spirit of the server.

Now you are just like an official like system where were many solo activity and really "lucrative" solo activity.

You now just need to use to this new change.

I really think like Nayru, you should play like you did 2 weeks ago and you'll see that solo is possible.

agree artefakt

we just have to find new hotspots

but i do agree a bit for soloers - its harder to find hotspots because theres 2 ways to action now..

a. horse (good camp spot)
b. boat (bad for camp spots because that brings u "behind" the solo campers)

I don't agree on the 'lazy' players thing. First off if you're 'lazy' you wouldn't even have reached lvl 50 on uthgard. And as other people said, it's not about the little extra distance to get to Agra but rather the entire rvr zone which is now too big. It's like Runis said, you just spend too many time looking for enemies.

Anyway OT: congrats Ayjub

nixian wrote:but i do agree a bit for soloers - its harder to find hotspots because theres 2 ways to action now..

I think thats why you roam DF a lot nowadays

No offense (glad u let me live )

ur welcome gemma if ur grey or no kill for me im only out for rps :p hehe

and tbh been more or less away from daoc last couple days

those hours ive been on been spend on ani (need cash for new template QQ)

There's no need to play my stealther anymore other than to make a tour through DF.
As a stealther, i use various charges and potions. If i have to rebuff everything 2-3 times, before i get one inc, i'd be soon very broke - provided, if i could stand the dullness of the situation. If i don't buff up myself, i will likely lose against a decent opponent no matter what.

Yesterday i was with my ranger, currently specced 50 bow for testing purposes, defending dun cruachon from mids. Do you believe my bow posed a threat to the attackers? It was another sad experience, that bow underperforms so much, where it should shine.

Conclusion: shelve ranger until situation is adressed or play other class.

Basically i play an alt now, when i log on these days, or go crafting/farming.

Me and all my friends are waiting for a de-nerf rollback, while, we are raising new twinks couse we can solo/duo/trio in bgs with some fun.
The RvR grp never was really fun, but now there is no RvR

When lot of people was solo/duo/trio it is a proof that it is FUN, Its a fact that there was very much more solo/duo/trio than RvR grps.
You can try live like, but you cant expect a big map like NF plenty of FG's roaming like in live, because we dont have a live-like population, most of Uthg. pop. are pvers.

Dunno why u believe that stealthers were a plague, They were the main reason which non skilled players/newbies went to play in grps, this increased a lot the Agra RvR grp activity.

things to consider:
-Uthgard is a freeshard.
-People plays to get FUN, the better the quicker. (dont bother with Inst50, we raised many lv50 here, we have RL, work, wife, etc...)
-We wont roam for an hour to get 1/2 incs. this includes solo or full grp.
-Stealthers maybe are a pain, but they are a part of the game, getting rid of them is being blind.
-RvR and whole system was stable, and reaching a good level of playing.
-Each time there is a RvR system problem, brae is plenty of players, check it now.

Custom changes will lead to a disaster.
If you force the people to play as you like, they will leave the game.
It is a fact.

I enjoyed a lot duoing merc/minst or even solo, but now for me, Uthgard is dying.

gatovaca wrote:Me and all my friends are waiting for a de-nerf rollback, while, we are raising new twinks couse we can solo/duo/trio in bgs with some fun.
The RvR grp never was really fun, but now there is no RvR

When lot of people was solo/duo/trio it is a proof that it is FUN, Its a fact that there was very much more solo/duo/trio than RvR grps.
You can try live like, but you cant expect a big map like NF plenty of FG's roaming like in live, because we dont have a live-like population, most of Uthg. pop. are pvers.

Dunno why u believe that stealthers were a plague, They were the main reason which non skilled players/newbies went to play in grps, this increased a lot the Agra RvR grp activity.

things to consider:
-Uthgard is a freeshard.
-People plays to get FUN, the better the quicker. (dont bother with Inst50, we raised many lv50 here, we have RL, work, wife, etc...)
-We wont roam for an hour to get 1/2 incs. this includes solo or full grp.
-Stealthers maybe are a pain, but they are a part of the game, getting rid of them is being blind.
-RvR and whole system was stable, and reaching a good level of playing.
-Each time there is a RvR system problem, brae is plenty of players, check it now.

Custom changes will lead to a disaster.
If you force the people to play as you like, they will leave the game.
It is a fact.

I enjoyed a lot duoing merc/minst or even solo, but now for me, Uthgard is dying.

Couldn't agree more. Just to post some facts, yesterday in our 3-hour frontiers adventure, my group totally met ~1fg and few soloers. We took few towers and thats basically it. Like gatovaca said, people play to have fun - running around 3 hours in empty agramon is not my definition of fun.

gatovaca wrote:Dunno why u believe that stealthers were a plague, They were the main reason which non skilled players/newbies went to play in grps, this increased a lot the Agra RvR grp activity.

Nobody from staff ever said that stealthers were a plague.

gatovaca wrote:Custom changes will lead to a disaster.

So a custom camp in Agramon was a disaster for you. Interesting. Think about what you write.

Blue wrote:

gatovaca wrote:Dunno why u believe that stealthers were a plague, They were the main reason which non skilled players/newbies went to play in grps, this increased a lot the Agra RvR grp activity.

Nobody from staff ever said that stealthers were a plague.

I've read somwhere in forum 1 or 2 gm's agreeing zippity's will to restrain soloers/stealthers owning status.
My eng is short, but i think you all got the idea.

Blue wrote:

gatovaca wrote:Custom changes will lead to a disaster.

So a custom camp in Agramon was a disaster for you. Interesting. Think about what you write.

Btw, is not a Uthgard 100% custom camp, Live had got similar things, even Purga or DOL.
Anyway, if you did read right my post, you are able to see what I mean, referring about a custom nerfing of soloing posibilities-> BP recharge stones price, nerfing Charges, increasing the distance to reach a RvR zone.
There is no need to evade my point of view, we are players, you are developers.
I always try to be constructive, and criticise in a good way, 90% of time you all make a great job, and I always have been grateful about it, but in same way, we are able to see when you are going wrong too. (yeah, its just MY OPINION, maybe its my bad)

RvR was going very well, high rate of active players, very good LWRPS table, and, as always some people QQing about some soloers OP, or too much stealthers killing them. it sounds very familair to me....ah yeah, i can remember that from live too! =)

Another interesting point is the alchemyst crafters recharging ability, long time ago we reported it to be fixed (and re-bumped lot of times), but staff didnt fixed it. (this ability is mainly linked to RvR solo/duo players)

Yeah, I mean, it doesn't exactly take a rocket scientist here to figure out that there is now a huge push towards group-only playstyle by the Uthgard Devs. First the addition of the new keeps and relics, then the removal of the agra porters, killing the action for anyone without speed 5, and finally the huge increase in recharge costs. Its just like that stage on the live servers when the 8-man grps started complaining about adders and Mythic started to cater to their needs, specifically, since they were the most vocal groups, even though they made up less than 10% of the actual population.

Even a cursory view of DaoC history will show what happened next: initially, the 8man groups were all happy because they got to roam around and have their little semi-private battles unmolested, since soloers, stealthers and even some small grps couldn't keep up or zerg-up. Eventually, however, the real Elite grps began to separate themselves from the wannabes, growing stronger. These groups eventually became unstoppable, their power increased exponentially as a result of their superior skill multiplying itsself via the Realm Rank gap. At some point, the other groups who thought it so important to have open field 8v8 only battles no longer found it fun to lose 15 times in a row and logged shamefully and quietly, never to be seen again. All opponents vanquished and overrun, and with nothing more to prove, the Elite groups roam for a few more months, rolling soloist, XPers, stealther fights and small-mans--anything to feed their lust for arpees--until they too get bored, and move on to a new game. The whole while, discouraging any new blood in NF by insta-gibbing anyone who dared to set foot outside a main keep wihtout the perfect group setup. What at first sounded like such a great idea ended up in a ghost-town, with few, if any in RvR at all.

Its your server, you can do what you like, but making huge changes like these, then basically telling people not to give you feedback in the forums you created for that purpose is kind of silly. Frankly, we are just stating the obvious. Even a quick glance at the Herald reveals the truth: 50 RvR is dead on the vine atm, compared to where it was before these changes. Yes, some people are still making Rps, but when you can go out on a Sat afternoon, like I did this weekend, and roam every bridge and tower in NF 4-5 times for almost an hour during the middle of the day and see no kill spam for nearly 45 minutes, something is very wrong...

Honestly, I dont even think its about the porters as it is a feeling many players have of being forced to adapt to a new playstyle that only suits a small portion of the population on Uthgard. Most people want to just pop on for an hour or two, and find some action, at least in a relatively small amount of time. They don't have a regular set-group or time to spam "LFG RvR" for an hour before they even get to start playing. The porters themselves might not be so much of an issue if the active, stable lvl 50 RvR population could sustain such a large are. At the moment, it obviously can't and anyone without group speed is going to spend most of their time wandering around all over just trying to find someone to fight, much less a competitive one where they dont just get rolled by one of the large groups. At least with the last, imperfect, setup, people knew where to find some action.

There are probably no easy answers to this situation and I admire you guys for working so hard to try to make the server a better place to play. We wouldn't come here and throw in our 2 copper pieces unless we cared too, you know? Maybe the porters aren't the answer at all anymore, but I'm pretty sure I speak for a lot of players when we say that all we ask is that you keep the bigger picture in mind and keep including ALL types of players in the process as a feedback loop. Please don't make the mistake of being like Mythic and trying more to prove who's in charge and how the game SHOULD be played, rather than facilitating as many players to enjoy the game as possible. In the end, isn't that the only true barometer of success?

Thanks for your time and all the best.

Respectfully yours