Galandriel3 wrote:relvinian = viva, a frustrated old man : ///

No, Galandriel, I won't date you so stop flirting with me!

megatron wrote:The devs can ignore me if they want, that is their right and since they run things they'll move along at whatever pace they choose, I'm just putting in my 2 cents and if you dont like it dont read my posts.

Oh trust me, I've downloaded the dawn of light server and tested it out... I'd start my own server but after realizing you have to be a pretty hardcore C sharp developer to make any changes I deleted the server.. I don't have time to learn c sharp anytime soon. That being said if anyone wants to get ahold of the Lethantis, Genesis or Uthgard code I'd love to start with a good server base and recruit a dev or two to make some tweaks. My server would be pvp, with old frontiers, Relic bonuses for guilds. I've got 3 big servers (250GB ram/24 cores between them) and a 100mb/sec connection in my lab ... I'm a vmware guy, not a developer so the dev help would be a requirement.

this post reminds me of galas signature

holsten-knight wrote: ... plus the magic effect: As soon as the playernumbers drop below a certain amount (like at least 150 in every realm) the numbers tend to drop even faster. And it is very hard to reanimate such a server (as genesis proves). Good thing Uthgard has 2 defibrillator charges left: i50 and the release.

Consider this statement very carefully. Reanimation does indeed require defibrillation of significant proportions. I am referring to quality of life changes - potions, traveling speeds/distances etc. etc. Doing these minor changes on the fly after experiencing a dwindling population will not bring people back, but having them in before people starts quitting will retain them up-front (at least according to my beliefs).

EDIT: Other QOL features such as a map (with or without a where-the-heck-am-I dot) and a global chat is also part of this. I can personally live without it because I really love the game. But, given two options, and humour me in being hypothetical here, between having lower population of die-hard classic fans or a higher population (you cannot argue against QOL retaining more people at this point), would you not choose to have more people to enjoy the server with?

I trust that we have competent people to make these decisions, but just be very, very adamant that you would rather loose people for good than cave in to these QOL changes up front. Once they're gone, it's over. Defibrillation requires a significant change.

Galandriel3 wrote:relvinian = viva, a frustrated old man : ///

explains everything!

Equade wrote:

holsten-knight wrote: ... plus the magic effect: As soon as the playernumbers drop below a certain amount (like at least 150 in every realm) the numbers tend to drop even faster. And it is very hard to reanimate such a server (as genesis proves). Good thing Uthgard has 2 defibrillator charges left: i50 and the release.

Consider this statement very carefully. Reanimation does indeed require defibrillation of significant proportions. I am referring to quality of life changes - potions, traveling speeds/distances etc. etc. Doing these minor changes on the fly after experiencing a dwindling population will not bring people back, but having them in before people starts quitting will retain them up-front (at least according to my beliefs).

EDIT: Other QOL features such as a map (with or without a where-the-heck-am-I dot) and a global chat is also part of this. I can personally live without it because I really love the game. But, given two options, and humour me in being hypothetical here, between having lower population of die-hard classic fans or a higher population (you cannot argue against QOL retaining more people at this point), would you not choose to have more people to enjoy the server with?

I trust that we have competent people to make these decisions, but just be very, very adamant that you would rather loose people for good than cave in to these QOL changes up front. Once they're gone, it's over. Defibrillation requires a significant change.

If it has been that long, and if what you both are insinuating is in fact a reality, this battle is already lost. Honestly, how many of us are there really? Who among you has had friends die due to old age, who among you is on your way out as we speak? DaoC fans are a die'n breed.

" (you cannot argue against QOL retaining more people at this point) " its the same issue, time and time again. And I agree with you both.

I agree we need i50 and the beta to better end sooner than later. But the most important reason for this is the forum become more and more toxic. The same 5-8 people posting the same negative stuff in every thread. This is what turns new player, if they look at the forum at all, away.

I am sure player numbers will get a hughe boost with i50, that may dwindle again fast. Be prepared for this, and again all the "I told you so, see I am correct" posts by the usual suspects.

But the numbers at release may exceed everything expected. I bet everyone has friends who just wait for the release and don't want to participate in the beta. My complete guild has barely played in beta, and I know a LOT more that just wait for the release to jump in.
They don't care a lot about QoL stuff, if map is implemented or not (btw: just get a UI with maps, for example bobs?), they just don't care, as much as they don't care to participate in beta. Most people will just play the setup presented to them, fascinated by the old daoc feeling at first... and join the crybabies about 4-6 months later.

And btw: I am not arguing against the good effects some suggested QoL things would have. I also think a map showing the location would be nice, a group window showing endu and status would be great (especially for casual and pug groups) and so on. I completely agree with the "crybabies" on a lot of things.
I just think it is up to the devs to decide, and not such a big deal anyway. It is completely off to proclaim the end of uthgard, daoc... the whole world, just because some of this "nice to have" features are missing at release.

And it is a lot better to start without this features than to take them away later, you see what it did to the beta population? (sorry just kidding)

I fully agree with you Holsten, and as stated I can live without these things. The major point for me to get across here is, that the approach of having the server and the QoL features cut down to the bones at release is undoubtedly better than taking them out later. The important thing here is timing on potential re-introductions of these features - best before people leave, as it is very hard to get them back.

But then again, I might be wrong. Historically though, I am likely to be correct. We'll see For now it's just exciting to have the realease lingering in the not-so-distant future.

By the way, myself included, we are five people looking to get started who spent a maximum of a day on the beta. There is potentially a ton of sleepers waiting for the release

when i think about holsten i feel butterflies in my stomach!

Galandriel3 wrote:when i think about holsten i feel butterflies in my stomach!

makes me feel all warm and vomiting all over the desk.

And is not all...tank mid class need nerf output damage (Savage and Berz principally) and balance same of hib or alb tank class...or all go play Mid for easy win and server die same (you can see this from 1 month already)

To blame so called "toxic" people for population dwindling is amusing. Everything lies squarely on the decisions of the devs. I recall day one of the beta being a lot of people on. They came to check it out and by now they have. And they are gone. No map. No lfg. No bind in bgs. You think one whiny ****** more or less on the forum makes a difference compared to that?

holsten-knight wrote:

Galandriel3 wrote:when i think about holsten i feel butterflies in my stomach!

makes me feel all warm and vomiting all over the desk.

That's what happens when you have living insects in your belly!

relvinian wrote:To blame so called "toxic" people for population dwindling is amusing. Everything lies squarely on the decisions of the devs. I recall day one of the beta being a lot of people on. They came to check it out and by now they have. And they are gone. No map. No lfg. No bind in bgs. You think one whiny ****** more or less on the forum makes a difference compared to that?

As far as I see it your argument: not listening devs (to you), is as true as mine: toxic people (you) on the forum.
Both arguments not true at all without any proof or evaluation. Maybe that is what I tried to show you? Who knows, I am mysterious.

And please don't take dwindling population in a beta as proof for anything, it simply isn't. It is the most expected thing of all. I even warned the devs that they should not expect too much enthusiasm for a beta, so far it was a lot more than I ever expected.
Thanks to all player in the beta!

Equade wrote:I fully agree with you Holsten, and as stated I can live without these things. The major point for me to get across here is, that the approach of having the server and the QoL features cut down to the bones at release is undoubtedly better than taking them out later. The important thing here is timing on potential re-introductions of these features - best before people leave, as it is very hard to get them back.

But then again, I might be wrong. Historically though, I am likely to be correct. We'll see For now it's just exciting to have the realease lingering in the not-so-distant future.

By the way, myself included, we are five people looking to get started who spent a maximum of a day on the beta. There is potentially a ton of sleepers waiting for the release

The 20 or 30 of us who still read and post here, at the end of the day will be here no matter what. It's the other hopefully 600+ free rp's running around that may or may not be up for a truly classic DaoC experience. They are the real reason we want/need QoL features. Can't have the wheat without the chaff, we need the chaff lol