imo if you want to use 2h swords, stay spear.

the positive of a sword spec is the small shield and the bugged block rates with unspecced shields and high dex. this is the major advantage of sword over spear.

but i'm only talking. i'm tired of playing hunter on something other than relic raids...

wait, i like my hunter to farm nameds in malmohus. he's really good for that.

Celad wrote:For the last time:

- the tests i've done on doll have had the aim to calculate the difference in DAMAGE between spear and sword. That has nothing to do with evade rate.

- what i've wrote about evade rate is something i've tested parsing the fights logs and calculating evade and missing rate in two weeks of incs in RvR.

So the two sentences you quoted has nothing to do each other.
Hope now is more clear.

And now really... /ignore

I never once mentioned anything related to your damage tests. The only thing I was interested in from your posting was your claim;

Celad wrote:Actually i'm spear specced, with 1300+ WS, now an assassin can evade me max 2 times in a fight. With sword i reached incredibly [high] rates like 6/8 or 11/12 in a fight.

because other testing has demonstrated this to be false. It can be found in the support section of the forums.

All the data collected by players and posted on this forum contradicts the claim you made in the quoted section above.

I don't care about your damage tests between spear and sword. They don't interest me at all. However, claiming that having only 1300 weaponskill is allowing you to penetrate assassin evade rate to a total of only 2 per fight (I guess that's 10-20%?) is a very provocative claim, since I see much higher evade rates than that, with much more weaponskill. And testing shows it to be wrong too. So please, post your parsed logs.

Lev wrote:imo if you want to use 2h swords, stay spear.

the positive of a sword spec is the small shield and the bugged block rates with unspecced shields and high dex. this is the major advantage of sword over spear.

Yes this is right. But there are no chain on block for hunters with sword.
You have to wait to evade anyway if you want to use a good chain.

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Force wrote:hmmm, so you tested assasin evade rates versus spear by hitting a test doll all day....

Rofl.

Force wrote:I never once mentioned anything related to your damage tests.

what about the words "evade rate" causes you so much confusion?

Celad wrote:----------------------------------

Force wrote:hmmm, so you tested assasin evade rates versus spear by hitting a test doll all day....

Rofl.

still waiting for any evidence 1300 WS from spear modifies down evade rates.

Force wrote:what about the words "evade rate" causes you so much confusion?

I never say that i've tested evade rate on a doll, but damage yes. So confusion is not mine.

Force wrote:
still waiting for any evidence 1300 WS from spear modifies down evade rates.

Celad wrote:Why? So you can trust me? I don't care about that.

Celad wrote:
I never say that i've tested evade rate on a doll, so confusion is not mine.

In response to my questioning whether or not you tested evade rates versus spear you cited your hitting a test doll, hence my sarcastic response due to not being able to test evade rates against dolls that obviously don't evade.

Celad wrote:Why? So you can trust me? I don't care about that.

No, you should post evidence because you are making claims contrary to publicly available testing. And doing so in a thread where someone is asking questions so they can make an informed choice about their class.

Spreading false information doesn't help anyone, and when you make claims that you are unable to substantiate, which go against testing, you'll need to provide some proof of what you say to have what you are saying considered anything but exactly that.

Force, you are right.

I've done other tests, the problem with my first test is that it's based on some specific weapon that i want to use (and i wrote that, it's one of the reasons for which i don't want to share my logs). Now the scenario is more clear: even if I have an higher WS and i've been evaded a lot less using spear, i agree with Seyha's test that WS is not directly correlated with evade chance.

It seems to me that:

- higer str/dex (for spear) or simply str (for sword) decrease the chance to miss but they have no consequences on the chance to be evaded;
- the chance to be evaded is indeed a lot affected by the weapon speed;

Now i use a spear that is fastest than my 2h sword and i think it's for this cause that assassins evade me less, indeed my WS (or more properly the average of str/dex > pure str) is higher now so i miss less too.

But still there are some question i can't answer, and that show me other proof that something is wrong in the actual melee uthgard settings.

1) Why with my 1h sword (fastest than my 2h spear) i've been evaded more than my spear?
The only thing that change in this case is WS (less with sword), str is the same.

2) On what dmg table are spear and sword for hunter in uth? We ask a lot in bugreport zone... but still nothing. I've read something about two different tier for hunters: one higher if you use spear, and a second lower if you use sword, but i can't found the link anymore, will keep looking for it, maybe it can be interesting. If this is real, this can explain something.

I think these are good points to solve before we can decide if spear is better than sword of viceversa for hunters.

If I recall correctly hunters should be on the same table as Skald, with both spear and sword.

No, hunter spear should be on a higher dmg table than hunter sword.

bawww wrote:No, hunter spear should be on a higher dmg table than hunter sword.

I've seen this listed on weaponskill tables before but haven't seen any real evidence to back it up. My own testing on Live has shown that these tables can be incorrect.

This is all redundent anyway since Spear is better.

Seyha wrote:

bawww wrote:No, hunter spear should be on a higher dmg table than hunter sword.

I've seen this listed on weaponskill tables before but haven't seen any real evidence to back it up. My own testing on Live has shown that these tables can be incorrect.

This is all redundent anyway since Spear is better.

But it can explain how can i be evaded more with a 1h fast sword than with a 2h spear.

Hunter must be Spear!

Why ?

1) anytime combo of spear has demage 0.59 - 0.8 and snare the targhet. Sword anytime have 0.59 demage then it's lower.

2) spear ws is based 50% str 50% dex, so youhave more ws then a sword hunter and you soffer less assisns str/con debuff

3) with spear you have 2 type of demage (thrust and slash). You can use thrust vs ranger, ns, scout, slash vs inf. If you play sword you have hib stealther with high resist.

4) you have a nice stun back

Sword don't have advantage:

High bonus to hit of the anytimer works against miss and not to penetrate defense!! and the second style after evade with stun isn't nice because hunter with only evade 3 and vs assisns with 2 weapons dont evade.

I used to play a high RR hunter long ago on live....

The problem with spear is that it has a wide variance in outcomes because generally it is a slower speed weapon. You'll either win by a lot, or lose by a lot.

In contrast, swords are faster and tend to smooth out the variance in a fight.

I'd go with spear because of the styles that are geared with a Hunter in mind. Just remember that you'd have to parse a LOT of fights with a spear to get a true sense of average.