LOL to all of the above 4 pages, VWs get groups all the time and there awsome dps , this forum should be called,
" the negative people who play daoc, representing 15% of the uthgard population"

Good VWs know not to use AOE moves , to peal healers when there being attacked, and to generally kick peoples asses basically the same role as the blademaster except VWs can take more dmg with there absord buff/armor buff / absorb proc , making them actually take less dmg then most tanks because of the evade 4 , and decent parry,

flame all you want but go play a VW to atleast 40 and tell me they are useless and not nessasary and i will LOL in your face

the other 85% of us have our own opinions and this thread doesn't represent what hibernian's population as a whole thinks

VW is a great solo char atm, noone who will disagree with you. In Grps he cant compete with a BM since one shield tank is enough to make the VW almost useless.

useless is a matter of opinion , alot of ppl dont even notice there is a VW in the group instead of 2 BMs , we do more dmg then BMs with our fast scythes , we are a DPS class that is what the VW does we just do it alittle differently then Blademasters that are a dime a dozen and probably just as hard to find a group as a VW because there is 200 of them on hib.

pweet wrote:VW is a great solo char atm, noone who will disagree with you. In Grps he cant compete with a BM since one shield tank is enough to make the VW almost useless.

I group in emain ALL the time on my VW , with guilds , pickups , and even with the odd ballers that no one will group with , we do great and stand right next to the standard tried and true hib groups and do just fine.

Instead of playing the same 4 classes over and over again , why not try some variety for once? lol

Bard end+aug str4+mopain4+haste+5.5scythe+conflag= tears of joy

Well then, i wonder why hib pugs die in Emain all the time. Haven´t seen even one that managed to kill any of the more or less established grps lately...and i guess there are reasons for that. Then again, VW can work great. Just that a BM will in 90% of the cases do better.

Doesnt matter which setup u run as a random pug, u ll stand no chance anyway and y VW is great for Duoing as well, but then u can just fight small men and there are not that many around. So u ll be bored quiet quickly since u cant find stealther

pweet wrote:Doesnt matter which setup u run as a random pug, u ll stand no chance anyway and y VW is great for Duoing as well, but then u can just fight small men and there are not that many around. So u ll be bored quiet quickly since u cant find stealther

like i said i pug , and group with guildies in emain all the time i do well fully templated RR7 VW outdamage almost always all BM i have come across with dmg meter.

you never out dmg a BM with a VW vs decent grps since you ll get blocked 2x more which is huge

well it happens so deal with it

I would agree that a VW can out dmg a BM, but what you seem to be not focussing on Gregross is that a BM can spec shield for slam and gaurd. A BM gets Stoicism, so even tho your VW can spec det 5 (which most dont), I can also spec that AND get the bonus 25% reduction from stoicicism. BM's also have access to Charge which is very nice in 8 vs 8 fights. I get that you have a RR7 VW and you dont like people saying their not good for 8 vs 8, but just saying that your VW can outdamage a BM is not a valid point. There is so much more in RvR then strictly dps. Its those other things (stoicism, shield, charge...) that makes a BM better then a VW for 8 man RvR, and lets not forget that a BM also offers great dps. Maybe its not quite as high as some VW's, but when you put it all together BM > VW for 8 man RvR.

RonELuvv wrote:I would agree that a VW can out dmg a BM, but what you seem to be not focussing on Gregross is that a BM can spec shield for slam and gaurd. A BM gets Stoicism, so even tho your VW can spec det 5 (which most dont), I can also spec that AND get the bonus 25% reduction from stoicicism. BM's also have access to Charge which is very nice in 8 vs 8 fights. I get that you have a RR7 VW and you dont like people saying their not good for 8 vs 8, but just saying that your VW can outdamage a BM is not a valid point. There is so much more in RvR then strictly dps. Its those other things (stoicism, shield, charge...) that makes a BM better then a VW for 8 man RvR, and lets not forget that a BM also offers great dps. Maybe its not quite as high as some VW's, but when you put it all together BM > VW for 8 man RvR.

This

RonELuvv wrote:I would agree that a VW can out dmg a BM, but what you seem to be not focussing on Gregross is that a BM can spec shield for slam and gaurd. A BM gets Stoicism, so even tho your VW can spec det 5 (which most dont), I can also spec that AND get the bonus 25% reduction from stoicicism. BM's also have access to Charge which is very nice in 8 vs 8 fights. I get that you have a RR7 VW and you dont like people saying their not good for 8 vs 8, but just saying that your VW can outdamage a BM is not a valid point. There is so much more in RvR then strictly dps. Its those other things (stoicism, shield, charge...) that makes a BM better then a VW for 8 man RvR, and lets not forget that a BM also offers great dps. Maybe its not quite as high as some VW's, but when you put it all together BM > VW for 8 man RvR.

well atleast someone with an education shut me up.... but like i said VW can out damage a BM not better for 8v8 but still not a bad choice for one either..

I would agree with the above statement. Just because you have a VW in 8 man group does not mean your doomed. You just need to adjust the group a bit. I would take a well played VW over a poorly played BM in most cases. But RR, play quality, and all other things being equal a BM just has more overall utility in 8 man.

There is also a great dependency on situation.

vs. Mid groups Ichor comes in handy to peel/kite, vs. Alb groups VW offers better rupt (insta DoT, snare...). And with albgoups you usually split on targets anyways, so the chance of being blocked by the guarder is lower. In root VW can acutally be useful, LL nukes hit quite hard. In mezz if purge is down, different story.

I think BM delivers better "general" performance while VW offers more situational performance, assuming both are played well.