MrTannerWOLD wrote:It allows for realms to become unbalanced quickly. For example:

Emain has 4FGA / 3FGM / 2FGH. Hibs getting rolled by Mid and Alb left and right. Hib players, instead of calling for more players or trying to help guild mates get to RvR level, the way it was on live in the old days, they just go log their Alb/Mid 50's and join in on the action. It could be a matter of 1 hour and the population becomes 5FGA / 4FGM / .5 group Hib spamming /lfg for help. I remember days when getting whipped in RvR then going to help lower level guildies level so they could join us in RvR and help win.

Their are other implications of cross realming without any timer. One could log Hib and hang out for an hour and see that their is a raid going on (relic, keep, etc) and decide that instead of joining the raid for minimal RP's that they will go to another realm and organize an anti-raid and force large inc in RvR.

Flip flop, you're either for it or against it.

basically i agree, that the whole switching issue was never intended and is not desirable, but as some1 else has already said it would be a loss for many players to only play 1/3 of the game...

i've always played alb on live and even chose alb-classes on pvp-server and i play alb on uthgard...however, through all my live-time (funny term) i wanted to test several classes from other realms...not the realms themselves...i never could get used to playing in hib or mid for several reasons...but the classes (mentalist, champ and hunter) just really interest me...so i got a level 11 mentalist as well as a level 20 hunter on uthgard...i'd never participate in any relic raids or whatever with them, when they're 50, because i'm a loyal alb still...but currently i love levelling my little huntress and i hope to test it in BGs soon and see how it feels to fight albs...never experienced this and "xrealming" makes it possible...

and as others said...sure the xrealming is not very nice, especially if whole grps or guilds switch several times a day, but it doesn't really do any bad...most of the time they only join the realm with the most inc, so they actually help balancing rvr-pop between realms, which is even good

MrTannerWOLD wrote:It allows for realms to become unbalanced quickly. For example:
Emain has 4FGA / 3FGM / 2FGH. Hibs getting rolled by Mid and Alb left and right. Hib players ... just go log their Alb/Mid 50's and join in on the action. It could be a matter of 1 hour and the population becomes 5FGA / 4FGM / .5 group Hib spamming /lfg for help.

If I'd be one of those very good 8v8 player with fixed mates to play with, in your case I'd rather not log Alb, but be happy as Hib to have lots of action going. With that little 8v8 experience I have on this server, I think most 8v8 are clean fights with no adders - and everybody is happy when there is well-split action, and not one realm total dominating Emain. Once, I saw 5 fga roaming emain and maybe 1 group mid - one fga logging their hib or mid toons would be the way to get more action and fun for all.

I am not quite convinced this mythical realm hopping actually exists on any appreciable scale. First of all, there is no point in switching to the high pop realm, if you want to 8vs8. Quite the opposite. And then almost all groups, even those that have twink guilds in other realms, have a go-to realm that they normally stick with.

Another thing is this myth about relic raids being thwarted by cross-realming. I have, not once, seen a broad message about an impending relic raid. The first you usually hear is from a stealther at a mile gate announcing that 5+++ FGs just passed by. That's all you need to know.

So all in all, I have not yet seen any solid proof that the server is negatively affected by realm hopping. I can't obviously speak for the solo AMG camper crowd, but I wouldn't consider that a significant factor anyway. What I find surprising are the weird fluctuations in the RvR participation of different realms, but again, as far as I know there are few if any RvR-active guilds that move around between realms on a regular basis. Relic status seems to have something to do with it, which is surprising because either I like to RvR and than I don't give a damn about a few % more or less dmg, or I don't. But I find it hard to believe that someone would make decisions to RvR based on the current relic distribution.

Lasastard wrote:Relic status seems to have something to do with it, which is surprising because either I like to RvR and than I don't give a damn about a few % more or less dmg, or I don't. But I find it hard to believe that someone would make decisions to RvR based on the current relic distribution.

well if I had no actual preference in terms of realm choice and I had several 50s in all realms, i'd pick the one with magic relics over the others anytime, if I didn't consider other factors like rvr-pop and such...

though I was happy when albs took the str-relics, it was quite unfortunate for me, as that was exactly the time when i started levelling my huntress ;P

I'm pretty sure that ppl that are levelling several classes in different realms at the same time will surely switch realms according to the relic-status...why level hero when thane gets 10% on magic and melee dmg? why level rm, when sorc gets 10% magic bonus?...

the percentage of server pop won't be high, as most ppl really stick to one realm, especially the more casual players, but it's still a fair part of let's say 10-15%...and these 15% might lead to others being drawn towards this realm as well, as grping will be easier with 15% more players...that's why mid was SO strong until some months ago...they had all 6 relics for such a long time, that ppl started levelling there and actually got to 50 so they participated in rvr as there was regular and reliable zergs

Those winning team joiner do not exist. It's a myth.
It's just that all the PvE guys see better odds with the relics in the back, even if it is not a huge benefit at all.
So they go out and RvR, while others see a lot more out and join them.

Celteen wrote:Those winning team joiner do not exist. It's a myth.

It's not a myth. We see the numbers.

Lasastard wrote:Another thing is this myth about relic raids being thwarted by cross-realming. I have, not once, seen a broad message about an impending relic raid. The first you usually hear is from a stealther at a mile gate announcing that 5+++ FGs just passed by. That's all you need to know.

The reason people do not broadcast relic raids in broad anymore is precisely because we know people will go jump on their "go-to" realm and alert the enemy.

The reason you will never hear /b INC RELIC RAID!!! is because most people know how frowned upon it is...but that doesn't mean it isn't being talked about in private channels. You have to be naive about the nature of people to think that they aren't trying to get a leg up on the competition...some people will cheat to get an advantage every chance they are given.

Wow, this topic again? Seriously, we have talked and talked and talked about this. I have been in favor of a x-realm timer in the past and now I am more on the side of allowing people to play whatever you would like. Listen, as it has been pointed out on SEVERAL occasions, this is a very small community. Even when I was only playing Hibernia for 3+ years I talked to MANY people from other realms. They would log over to chat about a fight, sometimes ******, sometimes to compliment, but either way the realms have always and will always develop relationships, whether you have a timer or not.

For the people throwing up examples like such:

MrTannerWOLD wrote:Emain has 4FGA / 3FGM / 2FGH. Hibs getting rolled by Mid and Alb left and right. Hib players, instead of calling for more players or trying to help guild mates get to RvR level, the way it was on live in the old days, they just go log their Alb/Mid 50's and join in on the action. It could be a matter of 1 hour and the population becomes 5FGA / 4FGM / .5 group Hib spamming /lfg for help. I remember days when getting whipped in RvR then going to help lower level guildies level so they could join us in RvR and help win.

You do realise that the exact opposite happens on an almost nightly basis right? On an average night during American prime time we have anywhere from 1-20 people out in RvR. Some nights there is lots of Mids, some nights Hib has the most out, and other nights its the Albs that seem to bring the most people, but I can speak for Nayeh, Austerim, Gynsu, myself, Wiken, Akip, Blato, and several others that hop from realm to realm not looking for an easy fight but just looking for ANY fight. These are the players that are on EVERY night during American Prime time. I find most people complaining about this dont even f'ing RvR...

You all love to look at things from a very limited point of view and never think about the repercussions of this said change. Just 2 nights ago I was out on my hunter. It was myself, Intimid, Sleepwel, Jeriko, Luferous, and Caustsneak out there. There was ONE ranger coming out and zero other enemies around. Now, if we made your change and made a 1 hour timer for changing realms then we have ZERO options for improving action. We are stuck with 6 mid stealthers around all fighting to see who can be the first one to pop the ranger while the other 5 sit around and pick our noses waiting for anything to come along. After about 45 minutes of this I switched over to my ranger. No, it was not to "arrange" a fight, it was so there was now a bit of action. I was able to make a decent amount of rp's and the mid stealthers now had a couple enemies to fight instead of just 1 that was probably going to log at some point.

My example above happens if not every single night than at least every other night. It happens with solo, it happens with small man, and it happens with FG's of people. The problem is that so many people on here think that xrealming is to blame for their own problems. They get killed while leveling at some random spot in DF or the frontiers, their answer is always, "Blame it on xrealmers." Hell there was a guild that blamed Nayeh and them for xrealming and said that they xrealmed to figure out what keeps they were going for. They had to explain that there is this little thing called the Herald that shows when keeps are being attacked, but its much easier to say its due to xrealming. Relic Raid failed, hell, blame it on xrealming. It would never be because you just lead a crappy raid or that the defenders did a good job. This same mentality exists on play style. When a player beats you its never because he's a better player, its always that he was "cheap" or cheated or hacked etc.

About the only time xrealming becomes a serious issue is during big events when people hop on the "winning" realm side for a reward. Making events that dont rely on the biggest zerg being able to get the reward would reduce this problem more then putting in a timer. The Labrynth event was a perfect example. You didnt have to be in the biggest zerg to get some rewards and this was not as big of an issue.

So here are your choices:

1. Implement a realm switch timer and now whichever realm has the most people will just stay that way. Everyone saying it will encourage the other realms to group up and work together is just hilarious. Yah, because that happens so much as it is. Seriously, people will not group more by doing this, they will just log faster and find another time sink in their life or they will roll another of countless other alts and go do BG warfare.

2. Leave it the way it is and work with what you have. As it stands now the power is in the players hands. You want to play 1 realm and that is it? Great, do it. You want to play all 3 realms and be able to hop on whatever side you are feeling to find action, then do it.

Remember, putting in a realm switch timer is not a magic fix for all. People can still xrealm, people can still communicate, people will still have their inter-realm friends, and most of all people WILL still switch realms and change isp's. Also, did everyone forget about couples or families that play together on one ISP? What about Hinata and his wife Evangelina? Now even though Hinata may want to play on Hibernia while Evagelina wants to play on Albion, well to bad. Same ISP needs to be on the same realm.

I was once on your side on this and felt a xrealm timer was a good idea. After seeing the other side of it I think you would still have every problem that exists now, you would just have less players and action.

RonELuvv wrote:As it stands now the power is in the players hands.

Uthgard´s community has shown that there have to be bans enforced because of people even logging other realms just to trashtalk other players for their in game actions. You know where I´m heading ...

RonELuvv wrote:What about Hinata and his wife Evangelina? Now even though Hinata may want to play on Hibernia while Evagelina wants to play on Albion, well to bad.

Client ID comes to my mind.

Now, don´t get me wrong. I agree in most of your points generating action but the truth hurts sometimes.

Aye Pil, I actually meant to go back and put in there that the only other problem with xrealming is people that switch over realms to log in and rage at a person, but I decided not to put that since now everyone on the game should know that all you need to do is screen shot and do a /call gm and that person will be getting at least a 4 hour ban. So allthough I agree that is a problem, I would also say that for the people that do that there is allready a punishment system in place to counteract that problem.

Outphaze wrote:I think we can all empathize with this situation. However, I do not believe we should ever expect to have constant rvr action, especially not late night US (10pm -1AM CST is pretty stone-cold dead). Not to mention we're playing a game that is over 10 years old, on a free server - constant RVR? Only in my dreams...

The whole concept of DAOC and realm vs realm was designed so that you chose a team and stuck with it.

Soooooo, not having constant RvR action is ok because the game is 10 years old and this is a freeshard, but not being restricted to 1 realm is a HUGE ISSUE AND IT'S KILLING THE GAME..........................which is 10 years old and is on a freeshard.

RonELuvv wrote: What about Hinata and his wife Evangelina? Now even though Hinata may want to play on Hibernia while Evagelina wants to play on Albion, well to bad. Same ISP needs to be on the same realm.

and then what? does it mean i can't play my ranger while she play her cleric? does it mean i gave her any info and she gave me any info?not really , since when i play ranger i was mostly hunting and adding stealthers or adding fg's at amg, except her group since i can't attack her. i mostly never added one of her group fight since gm told me i have to not attack her , what i did or i could take a ban.did i know when alb did relic raid when she was on alb and me on hib? yes i knew , but i never did any relic def with my ranger or any of my hib char since i knew relic was attacked before all other , and never said to any hib that alb was preparing for a relic raid.well for now there is no more "xrealm" for us since i am not playing daoc anymore since 2 month.and i don't see any problem with a couple to play on different realm if they not use any info. i think IRC is the problem about all that xrealm, you let players from the 3 realm talk to each other that is a same thing of 2 ppl in same room.
and as most of ppl know , i was just camping amg and adding everything so

thanks for reading and for ppl who not believe me i don't care , see you on battlefield soon !

Outphaze wrote:

Lasastard wrote:Another thing is this myth about relic raids being thwarted by cross-realming. I have, not once, seen a broad message about an impending relic raid. The first you usually hear is from a stealther at a mile gate announcing that 5+++ FGs just passed by. That's all you need to know.

The reason people do not broadcast relic raids in broad anymore is precisely because we know people will go jump on their "go-to" realm and alert the enemy.

You are talking about announcing an upcoming "own" relic raid in broad whilst he stated, that he never experienced information about an upcoming relic raid by an enemy in broad chat, thus arguing that there are no leaks concerning relic raids.

And like stated before: the realm hopping, should it occur on a noticable base, actually benefits rvr-action, since the only apparent reason to do it, is to balance rvr population.

Btw: Why is this thread in Hib forum?