Oswaldo wrote:isnt bow dmg 50 % quick and 50 % dex?

it should be. 100% dex was 1.88 change

EnsisFerrum wrote:And quickness only influences weapon speed (and evade?)

It inluences evade 50%

Bowdamage = 100% dex and best weapon delay with 50 cd would be 3.9/2.4 weaponspeed. Because the mainhand gets the style bonus and the offhand is only for the purpose of the haste effect (3.9+2.4)/2 when both weapons swing plus procs^^

Ronian wrote:Bowdamage = 100% dex and best weapon delay with 50 cd would be 3.9/2.4 weaponspeed. Because the mainhand gets the style bonus and the offhand is only for the purpose of the haste effect (3.9+2.4)/2 when both weapons swing plus procs^^

This is incorrect. 2.4 spd, escpacially for rangers with dex/qui buff and possible haste-pot is to fast and the swing cap is most likely already reached. You can easily calculate the most efficient spd by using a character planer and inpup your buffed quickness + 11% haste from pots. It should be > 3.0.

In addition, according to my knowledge, the DW-haste effect only applies on the damage done by the style growthrate multiplier. The overall effect is not such as high as some may belive.

the dual wield mechanics for hib and albion are the same, where for mids Left Axe are different.

Mid left axe mechanics are pretty simple: your weaponspeed is the average value between your main and off weapons, and everytime you swing you hit with both of them.

Alb/Hibs works different, its a lil bit more complex:

1) You have a base chance of 25% to hit with offhand weapon, icreased by 0.5% for every point in dual wield (including bonus). So if you have 50 dw you have 50% chances (25+25) to hit with offhand weapon.

2) Everytime you swing with your main weapon only, your next swing will happen according to your main weapon speed.

3) Everytime you swing with both weapons, your next swing will have 50% chance to happen according to your main hand speed, and 50% offhand speed.

To gain full advantage of these machanics you need to use the slowest weapons possible in the main hand, and the slowest weapon possible which grants you a 1.5 cap speed after all haste/quickness claculations in your offhand (you can use the weaponspeed tool for those)

This way you ll have a heavy hitting weapon in you main, which will give you more damage per hit (either cos its just slower and more style bonus), and the mechanics of the dual wiel will grant you a "haste effect" once in a while, making you hit at 1.5 speed but still taking advantage of your main hand superior damage.

about procs: the slower the weapon the higher chances it will proc, so that classes who uses slow weapons (like pole arms) dont get any disavantage from procs, and vice versa. Not sure if also works like that for reactive procs (if the weapon that hits is slower chace of reactive are higher) if it does not you just make enemies reactives proc more often by using fast weapons

I am using a mercenary atm and i am 100% sure this is how it works on this server, at least for albion's dual wield. Since on live albions and hib dw were the same i dont see why they shouldnt be here as well

Eddie wrote:3) Everytime you swing with both weapons, your next swing will have 50% chance to happen according to your main hand speed, and 50% offhand speed.

This should be live behaviour, but I was told by several players that on Uthgard that if both weapons swing, the next swingspeed is averaged and not 50/50 chance for each swingspeed. This would favor much faster weapons in offhand.
Also I think the increase of offhand swing is ~0.6% per spec point, not 0.5%.


Finally, to profit reliably from the haste effect requires a certain amount of CD/DW spec. Let me explain this in more detail:

If you have a chance of only, say, 30% chance that offhand swings, then you will usually swing at your low mainhand speed and eventually get a fast swing in between from the haste effect. This can be pretty undesired as it "feels" like lag-effects ingame and decreases your control over styles/movements. For rangers this might result in not being able to pull of side-styles correctly *cough*, for assassins this might be a bit disturbing when re-applying poisons during the fight since the time of the next swing is unreliable. This is why I prefer slower offhand on my Nightshade.

Of course, at 60%+ offhand swing chance this effect is less important.

0.5%, 0.6% per skill point...The mechanics of Dual Wield on Live vs Uthgard are based largely heresay.

I attempted to test this on a practice dummy outside TnN but my log did not show tenths of seconds. Unlike casting speed tests where u can just do 10x tests and determine the speed, with the variations in swing speeds based on dual wield i have no way to test reliably.

If any1 has an idea on how to test to confirm this i will give it a go.

@Eddie
Maybe some minor corrections.
There's a difference between hitting and swinging.
LA has a 100% chance to swing both weapons.

CD/DW - you need to swing the offhand to have haste effect - no need to hit.
Haste effect: (eSPDmain + eSPDoff)/2

shade wrote:

Eddie wrote:3) Everytime you swing with both weapons, your next swing will have 50% chance to happen according to your main hand speed, and 50% offhand speed.

This should be live behaviour, but I was told by several players that on Uthgard that if both weapons swing, the next swingspeed is averaged and not 50/50 chance for each swingspeed. This would favor much faster weapons in offhand.
Also I think the increase of offhand swing is ~0.6% per spec point, not 0.5%.


Finally, to profit reliably from the haste effect requires a certain amount of CD/DW spec. Let me explain this in more detail:

If you have a chance of only, say, 30% chance that offhand swings, then you will usually swing at your low mainhand speed and eventually get a fast swing in between from the haste effect. This can be pretty undesired as it "feels" like lag-effects ingame and decreases your control over styles/movements. For rangers this might result in not being able to pull of side-styles correctly *cough*, for assassins this might be a bit disturbing when re-applying poisons during the fight since the time of the next swing is unreliable. This is why I prefer slower offhand on my Nightshade.

Of course, at 60%+ offhand swing chance this effect is less important.

Thx for the corrections, i didnt know that. Anyway i do not agree with you. Ignoring the haste effect just cos you have few points in it its not smart thing in my opinion, especially on a stealther who has to survive on 1v1 fights. If the base chance at 0 pt DW/CD was 0% then you might have made a point, but since you do have that base 25% chance, by saying: "you can ignore it no problem if you have it low" means basically: who cares about a 25% chance of haste effect. Also, speaking realisticly, you r always gona have a +11 from items with a decent template, and some more from rr lets say 15 at least for a rank 4, and with any spec you go you r always gona use the remaining points in dual wield in any class who use dw. Lets say you r gona have from 10 to 20 pt in dw, for an average value of 15. That said, we just reached a total dw value of 30, even when your not going for a dw spec. that is 15% (if as you said is 0.6% per point is even more - 18%), added to the base 25% you r gona have 40-45% chances of going for dual swing.

So yes, I do understand your point, the random haste effect might be annoying for many reasons, but hey, once you know why you r using certain weapons speed, I d say you r pretty prepared for it, we r not talking about some undesired bug or flaw of the game. So i think you really SHOULD get used to it no matter what, cos avoiding that annoying random haste is gona gimp your damage, and a lot, and i believe that after some time u ll get so used to it, that the random haste effect its not gona be a real problem anymore.

Lets make a rough calculation on how much damage you gona lose: lets say we use a main hand weapon wich has double speed of the offhand one. Means every hit of the main is gona do 2 times damage. Since speed is exactly double, it does not matter if after the dual swing we have 50/50 chances or average value, what you gain is just the same: everytime you go for dual swing you have a 25% haste effect.
Average case: your main weapon has x speed, your off x*0.5, every time after dual swing you hit at x*0.75
50/50 Chance: you main x speed, off x*0.5, you have a 50% chance of gaining a 50% haste, which is equivalent of a steady 25% haste, just depending on luck.

Now if you see the 50/50 chance example, what do i mean with 50% haste? I mean swinging twice as fast (x*0.5 speed or x/2 if you like). That means you gona do 2 times damage with your main weapon in the same amount of time (since you r hitting 2 times with it when u was supposed to hit once). So basically by saying 50% haste we mean DOUBLE DAMAGE (100% more) with main weapon. Since we realized that in both cases our final haste is 25%, we have a 50% bonus damage on the Main weapon everytime we go for the dual swing.

Considering that this 25% haste effect is gona happen at a 40-45% rate (low rank and 15pt~ in dual) its equivalent of a 11% steady haste, which can be translated to 22% more damage for the main weapon. Now we should define how much of the damage is dealt by the main weapon and how much from the offhand: lets say 70-30 ? 70% of 22 is 15%, so we have an overall 15% damage boost.
This kind of haste cannot be compared to the normal haste buff however, cos you main hand weapon its not gona suffer from the damage reduction applied from the normal haste buff or increased agility. so the real gain is 15% damage roughly.

This are still rough calculations which i just made and correct me if i made any mistake, but if i didnt, how many ranks and passive Ras are required to gain a pure 15% damage boost? maybe Mopain 5? Thats 36 points. I think only a fool would ignore that on a solo class whos survivability relies purely on himself

thx for reading ^^

It's not that easy.
You are limited by 4.1 - 2,4
So x and 0,5x doesn't work!

The same damage while swinging faster only applies for basedamage.
For Style damage the eSPD = (eSPDmain + eSPDoff)/2 is used for calculation!

Razzer wrote:It's not that easy.
You are limited by 4.1 - 2,4
So x and 0,5x doesn't work!

The same damage while swinging faster only applies for basedamage.
For Style damage the eSPD = (eSPDmain + eSPDoff)/2 is used for calculation!

you r right. i just tried to semplify for the sake of calculations, as i said these are rough. The final results are certanly not correct, but i believe they give some idea on how much damage you gona lose just by not taking advange of the dual wield mechanics

Just to bring my 2 cents in again i have been told by a Customer Service Representative on the live servers, after he reassured with a developer, that the live behaviour at the time and still being, is the same for calculating weapon swing speed with dual weapons.

Greetings