Eclipsed wrote:That is true, as long as everyone does a snare style. But if the hero is also trying to also use shield for guarding, CS can not be used at that time. But since LW or CS is slower then a BM with 1h weapons doing the rear snare, its more then likely the BM will keep the enemy snared, even if the hero isnt using one, while using a slow 2h. But it all depends on situation and grp size.

Dude... a Hero either is in a situation that guard is required, e.g. protecting a druid or an eldritch, or it is hunting down the enemy. For the last thing he does not need guard. So your argument that he cannot guard while using spear is not valid.

Someone tried:

50 Spear
50 LW
rest parry

max 2h bonus
max WS
thrust/slash/crush damage

You can do nothing but damage but could be nice

Der_Eisbaer wrote:

Eclipsed wrote:That is true, as long as everyone does a snare style. But if the hero is also trying to also use shield for guarding, CS can not be used at that time. But since LW or CS is slower then a BM with 1h weapons doing the rear snare, its more then likely the BM will keep the enemy snared, even if the hero isnt using one, while using a slow 2h. But it all depends on situation and grp size.

Dude... a Hero either is in a situation that guard is required, e.g. protecting a druid or an eldritch, or it is hunting down the enemy. For the last thing he does not need guard. So your argument that he cannot guard while using spear is not valid.

Dont you think that snaring your enemy while guarding is not so bad idea? Unfortunately almost not possible on Uth.

To the first post: With our currect patch (1.80) none hib 1h style has access to back snare.

Razzer wrote:Someone tried:

50 Spear
50 LW
rest parry

max 2h bonus
max WS
thrust/slash/crush damage

You can do nothing but damage but could be nice

As also said by Blackcougar before, I do think this is a very interesting spec for a solo or offensive Hero.

In general you will just use Annihilation as your main stun and possibly damage style, even if you're solo it shouldn't be that hard to land. After that you pick the weapontype of choice and start dishing out some serious damage. Since you will always be able to (if quick enough) switch to a damage type where your target's armor weak against is, that might actually work.

Der_Eisbaer wrote:

Eclipsed wrote:That is true, as long as everyone does a snare style. But if the hero is also trying to also use shield for guarding, CS can not be used at that time. But since LW or CS is slower then a BM with 1h weapons doing the rear snare, its more then likely the BM will keep the enemy snared, even if the hero isnt using one, while using a slow 2h. But it all depends on situation and grp size.

Dude... a Hero either is in a situation that guard is required, e.g. protecting a druid or an eldritch, or it is hunting down the enemy. For the last thing he does not need guard. So your argument that he cannot guard while using spear is not valid.

That is why i commented on another spec, to be able to guard and dish out 1h dmg as you guard. And since you dont need a really high spec for guard, and that blocking is reduced by evade and parry first, it makes small adustments to shield spec, not as noticable. Even without 42 shield, and with like 28 shield, you can still go between 2h to guarding, with some MoBlocking , will not be as effective, but only by minor.

Firbolg Hero RR5 with Max buffing

44 LW : WS= 1926
34 Blade WS= 1810
42 shield WS= 1612 (54.75% After Evade and Parry Chance= 24%)
30 parry (48.75% After Evade Chance= 41%)
Evade = 15.07%

Diff Spec with less shield, and more LW and parry

50 LW : WS= 1995
34 Blade WS= 1810
29 shield WS= 1485 (48.25% After Evade and Parry Chance= 20%)
36 parry (51.75% After Evade Chance= 44%)
Evade = 15.07%

so 13 less shield = about 4% block chance, depending parry spec. So my point is that i dont believe you need a high spec in shield to have that greater of a block chance. To have a good block chance youd have to go with little if no parry chance, since that is how the defense work, according to what ive read on live. Even with 1 parry , the diffrence between 1 and 50 shield is about 14% block chance after evade and parry chance, fully buffed. and the diffrence between 1 and 50 shield with 50 parry is only 8% after evade and parry chance. So keep in mind how the formula works for defenses, when choosing the importence of blocking.

Have no idea if uthgard has such formulas.

man the math may say that it doesnt make a big difference, but be guaranteed that it does.

the difference in blocking and even more so in guarding between 42 and 50 schild is Massive.

someone wiht 29 schild i would consider gimped.

you have no slamm and worse, your actual chance to really block/guard is so far down the drain that parry would be a better use of the skillpoint to actually give protection, if not for others, at least for yourself.


so, neither will your sield do you any good while blocking and guarding, nor will you shieldstyles be of any good.
mainly because they all require a succesful block to be used and on top of that because your base and style damage when using shield styles will be far to low.

you can outdamge a halfway 1h spec with a full shieldspec if you use a small / medium shield depending on d/c and haste and just keep slamming.
maybe put a dotproc on there.
and with a small shield you wont even use a lot of endu.

shield is a all or nothing line, even 42 is practicaly too low if you really want to be able to guard and land your slams AND have them do decent damage.
more like an emergency tool which looks good but doesnt help much.
or for guarding another shield tank in pve.

Well depending the situation your in, the chance to block would very. Like vs multi targets, your parry would prob be reduced because of the number of enemys, while if you have a large shield, which can take on 3 enemys, you may see more blocking. Same goes if your vs someone with 2h weapon which halfs parry, while dual wielders will lessen your block by half. But if your guarding someone, you cant parry or evade your guarded target, its block, so yes i think in that situation youd get the full effect of blocking. So 42 to 50 would have an effect on guarding. But that is a guess.

parry is pretty useless if you are guarding someone unless they decide you are the bad guy and needs to die instead, but if they do so your healers should be free so

ya that is true, but it all depends on the rolls that hero wants to play. If he just wants to run in grps as a guard bot, then you really dont need much parry. If you only want to melee with a 2h, you may not need as much shield, and if youd like to solo and play in grps, you will need some parry. So if we are just talking about guarding someone, you would just spec 50 shield, 50 1h and res in parry. But it all depends on what you want to do, and the utility you want in a grp. and if youd like to have the option to solo.

Eclipsed wrote:ya that is true, but it all depends on the rolls that hero wants to play. If he just wants to run in grps as a guard bot, then you really dont need much parry. If you only want to melee with a 2h, you may not need as much shield, and if youd like to solo and play in grps, you will need some parry. So if we are just talking about guarding someone, you would just spec 50 shield, 50 1h and res in parry. But it all depends on what you want to do, and the utility you want in a grp. and if youd like to have the option to solo.

tbh if a hero needs to defend himself while trying to dps.. well.. the grp has already failed then xD

well that is assuming the player is in a big grp. But depending the size of the grp and what classes and experence everyone is, you may need to defend yourself. And if you choose to solo sometimes, going without parry will reduce your defenses if your going to use a 2h. Im just saying sometimes you may want to sacrific a little shield spec for at least some parry, since a few pts in shield equal less then a few pts in parry, when it comes to defense for yourself. But if we are talking about full grping or smaller grpsing with preffered classes, then you may have only one role in that grp.

As i said, it depends on what you want to do or what you want to be able to do. Some preferr to be total defense with guarding in a grp, and wait till high RR to solo or smaller grps. Even in a situation your defending a healer or caster, having better 1h weapon will help with defending and dmging that enemy. Making you more useful, then playong only one role, as long as you stay within i think 300 or 500 unit of your guard target. While in one situation, maybe for some reason more then one go for your guarded target and then they decide to slam or kill you, having some parry will still help, then having almost none, little help but better then 1-4% extra block, if they are not dual wielding and is less enemys then shield size.

So you can spec for only grping as a guard bot, soloing , or thin out the pts a little to be able to do both. Now youl not be as good as someone who spec for one job, but if you want to solo and grp it will be better, then having to respec.

you never actually played a hero, did you?

this all sounds very much like guesswork to me.

the circumstances dont matter. wether if your in a big or a small group or soloing, the best spec still stays the same:

50 LW/CS
50 Shield
1h/parry for choice.

the only real alternative to this is 50 parry, 50 shield and 28 1h and go full defennsive.

or as experiment 50 LW, 50 CS, 28 parry.

all the "combined 50 (eg 39+11)" that are so popular among the stealther classes are useless for fulltanks.


if you drop your shield any lower then 42 you might just as well not skill it at all.

in a group your either running AT and you want your damage as maxed out as possible OR you run def and want your abilty to guard as good as possible.

i had fights where i blocked 13 out of 14 attacks on my current guarded and land a 600 dmg hit a few seconds later.


the only annoying part about this versatility is the RA spec.

as full offensive you just go for (det4+ is a given for fulltank) mopain and augstr. there is not much more needed.

as full defensive, you can push DD, moblock, moparry aug dex and thoughness.

as the versatile spec you need both defensive and offensive RAs which result in a lower spec level on given RAs. even so overall your getting a very solid and round class.

--

you dont need 1h/parry in a 1on1 as cs/lw hero.

start with shield, let the enemy waste a bit endu, slam, get out the 2h and beat him up.

if your getting in trouble at any time, just get the shield out again.

if you get hit too much and cant do enough dmg with 2h, use small/medium shield and try to land some brutalizers. with 50 shield a small will give you a low endu cost decent damage attack or with hastebuff and medium moderate endu usage and good damage. - a hell of a lot more then you will get from 15-25 1h spec.

once the stun immunity is gone, slam and get out the 2h again.
but tbh, only paladins and battle healers should live that long.


you can use a dot reproc on your shield or 1h, that will boost your 1h damage more then more skillpoints.


im trying out a reproc on shield and MHB on my weapon atm.

so far its nice, the active MHB only buffer 50hp, but with a decent swingspeed it procs often enough to save me a couple hundret damage.

might switch to lifetap weapon later, im testin various combinations atm.



spreading skillpoints too much looks good on paper, but it just doesnt work.

you HAVE to max out your main lines as a fulltank, what you do with the leftover points, wether full parry and 1h only to taunt or full 1h and no parry at all or half half, doesnt really matter.

I do understand what your saying, because i seen that tactic for solo tanks many times. Shield and 1h, slam, then use 2h , then back to shield and 1h till next slam. I dont mind when they do that to my ranger, since my dual wield cuts blocking down a bit and i just work on getting around there defense by making sure i style behind them most of the time. Since they dont have much parry, they almost get hit most of the time. You can even get away with purge 1 since almost allwes they use slam right away and if not, just time it and 2s numb will be gone by then before purge 1 goes off. Its the 2nd slam you got to watch out for. I tend to try to cut there life down with bow first before starting melee by kiting a little.

But every situation is diffrent. But no i havent played a hero that much, but i was just giving my 2 cents with reasons why. Its what i would try out and see if i liked it. There is no perfect spec, there is only testing it out till you find one that you like. I would suggest a new hero to try out what ever spec you want, try out the more experienced heros specs first and see if you like it, if you dont, look into others.

parry is pretty useless if you are guarding someone unless they decide you are the bad guy and needs to die instead, but if they do so your healers should be free so

What? You think just because you are attacked over a healer your healers are free to heal you? Do they run 8 person assist trains on this server or do people actually do their jobs and interupt healers when they are training targets.

rufi83 wrote:

parry is pretty useless if you are guarding someone unless they decide you are the bad guy and needs to die instead, but if they do so your healers should be free so

What? You think just because you are attacked over a healer your healers are free to heal you? Do they run 8 person assist trains on this server or do people actually do their jobs and interupt healers when they are training targets.

was talking specific about a guarding situation