I heard recently that a Ranger's Bow damage is the same at 14 spec as it is at 50 spec.

This would make having a Sniper specced Ranger basically useless.

I just want to confirm this info, and if it is true - what would be a good melee ranger spec and maybe some tips to playing it?

Luri for race.


Thanks!

That isnt true. The lower spec will produce huge variences and will not have the max dmg possible. At composite 50, you can hit max dmg, but still some what high varience. At 50, youl hit the max dmg and lower varience in dmg.

A good melee only spec i would suggest is.

36 pierc
39 cd
12 auto trained bow
35 stealth
42 PF

I personaly go for a hybrid spec to have some bow utility, my current spec is

34 pierc
21 cd
40 bow
34 stealth
40 PF

another spec ive used is

39 pierc
21 cd
35 bow
34 stealth
40 PF

I use to try out 42 PF for the highest spec AF of 80, but at 40 PF with the 62 spec AF, im seeing about the same absorb and i dont think its really working like youd exept , so i think its just a waste of spec pts, unless you go for the next DA or more.

awesome thanks!

I had a build kinda similar to your 2nd one listed. I am going to stick it out with my Ranger now, altering the build to fit what you recommended. I'm glad to know that Bow Rangers aren't totally useless ;P

Hybrid would work just fine with me - I tend to get in the middle of things during combat too (maybe Im grouping with the wrong people? haha)

Thanks again and hopefully I'll run into you on the battlefield one day!

there's a reason all the top (and only basically) hibernia LWRPS are lurrikeen rangers

http://herald.uthgard-server.net/herald ... layer&p6=*

it isn't cause bow sucks



Volley in its current state here will let you hit solo targets for 1600+ dmg. It will also allow you to do quite a bit of dmg to fights already occurring without getting close, allowing you access to RPS with minimal danger.


Melee is a good option as well because of PD you can go toe to toe with most classes, however that involves a level or risk not present to the bow spec.

Volley use does require some practice to do what those top volley full spec archers are doing. Youl need to be 45 bow, MoS4 or 5, and willing to avoid all melee combat because you cant melee. Its not a good choice to go with if your new to archery or if youd like to melee at all. And most likely it will get changed to compensate for the lack of skilled enemys. Most are using it as an excuse to bash the ranger, as there last target was Physical Defense and suddently turned into a volley cry, and then will go back to PD crying. Just ignore them and go with the spec youd like to go with. If youd like to go with full bow spec, dont get use to volley, one it will make your tactices to depended on how it works and you need to learn how to effectively kite, as with out volley a full spec archer needs to kite, especialy vs shield classes.

And please keep the volley cries out of this thread, it has nothing to do really with full bow spec ranger, more about melee and maybe hybrid. There is alrdy a volley cry thread made and alrdy has some questions for you guys to answer, so go there answer those guestions i asked and contenue the discussion in there.

lol eclipsed, be more defensive.


I provided the OP with accurate information about the state of bow spec. If you don't like it, too bad its true. Its not a "cry" just because it states how something works. If you don't know the difference, don't make accusations.


tzaaa (or maybe it was littleluc) was the #1 LWRPS (and consistently near the top) earner at what I would consider low RR (they're both R6 now, but when you do 200-400K a week that's a short time hehe), using bow spec, so to say that you can't be successful early on with bow is not true imo.


Bow seems to work well in the BGs too.

Eclipsed wrote: And most likely it will get changed to compensate for the lack of skilled enemys. Most are using it as an excuse to bash the ranger, as there last target was Physical Defense and suddently turned into a volley cry, and then will go back to PD crying.

can we discuss the usefulness of bow without this sort of ranting please?

tzaaaaa almost allwes uses volley, because he is full bow spec and that is how he is gaining such high RPLW, before such strength was discovered with the use of volley, the number of full spec archers was very low and most where high PD melee rangers. To be a sucessful , non volleying full spec archer, you need some importent RAs and kiting skills. High bow dmg requires a high bow spec which means no melee and if the enemy has a shield, the dmg output for an archer goes way down, not even considering if they have ranged attacks to intrup your shots. Anyone can gain a charged dd to intrupt, even though not many will do this in the heat of battle. Bow dmg is decent vs an assasin and maybe a few other classes , but that is about it, the rest volley is normaly what is taking them out and as soon as they change that, ill bet you tzaaaaa and other high rplw archers will go down greatly, and possibly turn back into melee rangers.

Ive played my archer, much longer then you have im sure, if you play one that is and dont tell me you know how archery works. And yes bow does work decent in BGs, even with just auto training, basicly because of how spec's work as you level up, it doesnt really reflect how it is at 50 because the diffrence in HP, armor, templates, and how spec effects your dmg.

Basicly bow is setup as 2handed weapon dmg, that is limited to range only, and you can match high 2h weapon dmg, when spec to high bow spec. Only diffrence is, when your intrupted or forced to melee, your melee dmg output will be nothing because of lack of melee spec. I also think bow dmg is compared to unstyled 2h dmg, so styles with 2h weapons will be higher then bow most likely. Arrows do add an extra % of dmg with highest dmg type, but is like 15 or 25%, while a basic taunt with a 2h is like 50+%. So to have bow effective, you have to learn to kite, and dont waste your time with depending on volley like the current archers.

Yes, bow dmg is essentially calculated (though in overall DPS calculation there is much more to consider) the same as 2H dmg without style bonus, and with a backloading of the attack. Meaning with melee you hit your attack and it fires, then there is a delay. With bow/spells you hit your attack, there is a delay, and then it fires.


The OPs question was if you continue to do more dmg by speccing higher bow. The answer is, "yes", about .5% per spec above composite level. Before composite level you will gain more as previously mentioned, through reduction in variance.

Beyond that, you gain access to volley, which currently, is a fantastic (!) tool for gaining RPS, whilst at the same time minimizing the risk. Volley may change, but when/how that's going to happen hasn't been announced. If I were the OP, I would go 45 bow until the change and then depending on what happens with that maybe respec to hybrid.



Also, I figured I should mention, if you go lurikeen you should consider either putting 10 of your starting points into constitution, or put 6 in and get aug con 1. This reasoning assumes that the constitution per HP calculation on uthgard is the same as live, and if it is, then con below 50 will count double for HP calculation. Haven't tested this myself, so I can't say 100% it works that way here, but that's how it worked on live.

Eclipsed wrote:Ive played my archer, much longer then you have im sure, if you play one that is and dont tell me you know how archery works.

maybe on uthgard, either way your ranger has what 500K rps? the top bow spec rangers are almost doing that per week. How old is your ranger again?

Don't see what this has to do with the discussion but congratz on playing an archer on uthgard longer than I have.


PS. i know how archery works.

For a ranger, its 3.6 hp per con. Best starting stats on any race is 10 str, 10 con, 10 dex. The diffrence between celt to luri is the celt has 72 more hp and the luri has 20 extra dex and qui, which barly helps evade and little if nothing on bow dmg.

And my celt isnt my first ranger, but actualy my 3rd on uthgard. I first made a lvl50 luri, then leveled a shar to 30 and decided to go with celt. Before that i had a ranger on purga/pycb. I also have a friend named silverleaf, who had a very high rank ranger on purga, and a high rank one on live, long time ago and he sees the same issues as i do on here. The only reason bow spec rangers are currently playing is because of volley, even you admited youd respec to hybird bow if volley is removed. Well why, if bow dmg/performance is go great, why would you respec to lower bow spec without volley.

So far ive noticed the best bow dmg is vs assasins, and a few other leather classes, its also good vs cloth casters who do not have high Physical Defense. The reast of the classes higher AF and absorb can really impact bow dmg, but it all varies.

But to stay on the topic , its ether full melee or hybrid specs with 27 , 35, or 40 bow id suggest. With 27 bow you get the highest critshot and ok bow dmg and can have decent melee, with 35 bow you get rapid fire and volley one, which isnt good for use like full bow spec archers use it as a solo tool because its only 3 arrow. Its useful for dmging those who run behind something to hide from your fire to get them to run back out, or to unstealth a enemy you may think is around. You also get PA1 = 50% secondary BT dmg on your enemy. And 40 bow ups your volley to 4 arrows, but still has same use as volley 1, just more dmg to get them out of hiding, you also get PA2 = 75% dmg on secondary BT targets.

Each point of constitution from base 40-49 should give twice the 3.6 HP/con that rangers get. If it doesn't work like that here, its bugged.
EDIT: thanks rector for clearing that up!

I said I would recommend "maybe" respecing to hybrid "depending" on how volley was changed.

But ultimately its going to be up to the OP to decide if he prefers bow mechanics and wants to maintain a high bow spec in a future with a different (and currently unknown) form of volley.

My ranger here is specced for pure melee because I don't find shooting arrows at people fun, and this and every game should be about having fun. I would never go pure bow spec on my own toon unless it was to do some kind of bug testing.


Not that I think this has anything to do with this discussion, but a friend of mine on live many years ago had the #1 ranger on lancelot (<3 chrysalis you sexy british beast!), which he gave me access to, and I had my own archers too, but none that were close to RR11 so I preferred to play his.

On Uthgard, 1 con doesn't give a fixed number of hp.


examples for my hunter at the time he didnt have tougness RA yet
total con = total hp
130 = 1184
150 = 1300
187 = 1433
207 = 1505

So it's 3,6 in the end, but its a higher value in the beginning.

Eclipsed wrote:tzaaaaa almost allwes uses volley, because he is full bow spec and that is how he is gaining such high RPLW, before such strength was discovered with the use of volley, the number of full spec archers was very low and most where high PD melee rangers. .

and exploits..
now he is out of game for 3 weeks because catched redhanded..
just a matter of time others will follow

Force wrote:
maybe on uthgard, either way your ranger has what 500K rps? the top bow spec rangers are almost doing that per week.

It's not hard to get that many adding & zerging.

Maidrion wrote:

Force wrote:
maybe on uthgard, either way your ranger has what 500K rps? the top bow spec rangers are almost doing that per week.

It's not hard to get that many adding & zerging.

especially when you do it from 2K range =/

my ranger was prolly the first bow specced in the server, spec was :

50 +cap bow
48 pathf
composite stealth
like 4 piercing and 12 cd
5,7 speed bow

was very good dmg but never reached 1600+ dmg against templeted chars, i do remember hitting a merc with 0% slash for 1300 crit in agra times.

it is true, a ranger who wants to avoid adding and zerging wont get much RPS