Uthgard • View topic - Blademaster vs Hero

Blademaster vs Hero

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Ganaka Myrmidon Posts: 204 Joined: Dec 01, 2016 22:39	Reply with quote by Ganaka » Dec 22, 2016 23:18 Anyone up for some theorycrafting? How do the Hero and the Blademaster compare as shield tanks? How important are things like Large Shields, Scale Armor, and Avoid Pain? Is there a hard cap on any of the defensive mechanisms such as Evade, Block, and Absorption? All info from Nixian's site. What the Hero gets that the Blademaster does not: Large Shields (BM gets Medium Shields) Scale Armor (BM gets Reinforced Armor) Mastery of Blocking Avoid Pain (Rogues get this but not BM) Armor of Faith What the Blademaster gets that the Hero does not: Evade III (Hero gets Evade I) Advanced Evade Charge Dualist's Reflexes Whirling Dervish Bladedance Dodger

Shinyuka Myrmidon Posts: 152 Joined: Oct 19, 2013 13:15	Reply with quote by Shinyuka » Dec 24, 2016 12:41 hi.. it is an interesting topic, but has been discussed several times (e.g. viewtopic.php?f=32&t=38480&start=15 ).. btw, charge exists for light tanks, but is rather some kind of "free 10 sec sprint", so not really worth mentioning unless you REALLY want to min/max hard. imo the choice of class depends on your goal and your playstyle. BM can be an effective peeler, but as you listed above, cant wear large shields, which can be a big deal if you intend to play him defensively (even tho you'll be peeling/slamming most of the time). but after concidering all the pros and cons, id return to the start and say "hero, if you want to play rather defensively, with options to go in the offense", and "bm, if you want to play offensively, with some decent defensive options aswell".. Hero is just a bit harder to slam (with probably higher block/parry than BM, depending on spec ofc) and BM has better results in penetrating the enemy guard with his dual wield... but other reason to do it differently are probably viable aswell. merry christmas

shade Eagle Knight Posts: 690 Joined: Apr 01, 2009 00:00	Reply with quote by shade » Dec 24, 2016 14:54 Shinyuka wrote:Hero is just a bit harder to slam (with probably higher block/parry than BM, depending on spec ofc) Evade III + Advanced (360°) evade really more than compensates a block % or two “DAOC is not about what you can log. It's about what you can play :> ” Uthgard 1.0: <Die Lettanten> Ivia - 8L8 Nightshade - Lone Enforcer since 8L1. Uthgard 2.0: <Illuminated Stormriders> Oxy - Hero; Ivia - Nightshade.

Ganaka Myrmidon Posts: 204 Joined: Dec 01, 2016 22:39	Reply with quote by Ganaka » Dec 24, 2016 17:51 Thanks for the insight and the link. So the answer is 'it depends' on the spec. It's a bigger pita to switch to and from shield with a BM when compared to a Hero. A Hero can easily alternate between Shield and LW. That might be enough of a reason to go Hero. Is there an order of precedence for the defensive skills? Evade then Block then Parry? If so, does it matter much?

Shinyuka Myrmidon Posts: 152 Joined: Oct 19, 2013 13:15	Reply with quote by Shinyuka » Dec 24, 2016 21:35 shade wrote: Shinyuka wrote:Hero is just a bit harder to slam (with probably higher block/parry than BM, depending on spec ofc) Evade III + Advanced (360°) evade really more than compensates a block % or two 50 shield + 38 parry + evade 1 < 42 shield + evade 3? Maths for that, please. Ganaka wrote:Thanks for the insight and the link. So the answer is 'it depends' on the spec. It's a bigger pita to switch to and from shield with a BM when compared to a Hero. A Hero can easily alternate between Shield and LW. That might be enough of a reason to go Hero. Is there an order of precedence for the defensive skills? Evade then Block then Parry? If so, does it matter much? Depending on spec, you may have to switch between LW and spear, on hero... so I dont know about that pita thing. Yes there is an order of defense skills, and I've read it recently here in the forums but I don't know where. So if you find it, be so kind and post it here again. Last edited by Shinyuka on Dec 25, 2016 19:21, edited 1 time in total.

Kiksens Myrmidon Posts: 118 Joined: Oct 20, 2009 00:00 Location: Estonia	Reply with quote by Kiksens » Dec 25, 2016 14:09 Ganaka wrote:It's a bigger pita to switch to and from shield with a BM when compared to a Hero. A Hero can easily alternate between Shield and LW. That might be enough of a reason to go Hero. This is not true if you want to play ur hero to it's maximum potential. 50lw, 50shield, 10 blades for sidesnare, 6 spear for backsnare and rest parry is the way to go for 8vs8 hero. This means you will be switching between 2 large weapons for optimal damage type, spear for snaring, small shield for faster slam (and lesser enducost!) and large shield for guarding purposes. Takes a lot of practice to be efficient and fast enough while also being able to keep an eye on positioning and the fight in general. As a bm u'd only have to switch between lefty/shield.

Bryt Myrmidon Posts: 110 Joined: Sep 09, 2011 05:21	Reply with quote by Bryt » Dec 25, 2016 16:19 is there still a different between the shield size on uthgard? there should be no different if you guard for an other Player between small and large shield. the only thing it should effect is the situation if ppl hitting the guardtank, but not the guarded target.

Vlalkor Forum Moderator Posts: 415 Joined: Jun 23, 2011 03:31	Reply with quote by Vlalkor » Dec 25, 2016 16:34 Bryt wrote:is there still a different between the shield size on uthgard? there should be no different if you guard for an other Player between small and large shield. the only thing it should effect is the situation if ppl hitting the guardtank, but not the guarded target. Edit: I mis-understood what you were asking. Small=1 attacker blocked, medium=2 attackers blocked, large=3 attackers blocked.

GreenP Phoenix Knight Posts: 1305 Joined: Sep 07, 2008 00:00	Reply with quote by GreenP » Dec 25, 2016 16:48 viewtopic.php?p=122123#p122123 Blue wrote:From the code: Guard is influenced by shield size but only the attackers on the Guarder itself count not the guarded group member. This is propably incorrect. So if the guarder has no attacker on himself and the guarded group member 10 enemies, the guarder will block every enemy with no penalty. Sounds like a bug to me, at least thats what I read from the code. Edit: koruun wrote that this is live like. Formerly known as Touareg- RR10 noobVW on Uth1. Crossfire- RR7 noobAnimist on Uth1. Ohnoes- RR9 noobAnimist on Lolgins. Click this LINK if you want to see the truth about Hibernia

Bryt Myrmidon Posts: 110 Joined: Sep 09, 2011 05:21	Reply with quote by Bryt » Dec 25, 2016 16:56 ok, so everything is fine with the blocking for others

shade Eagle Knight Posts: 690 Joined: Apr 01, 2009 00:00	Reply with quote by shade » Jan 05, 2017 14:39 Shinyuka wrote:50 shield + 38 parry + evade 1 < 42 shield + evade 3? Maths for that, please. I have never met any hero with that spec in RvR If you also spec spear and blades, it's likely that you have low or no parry. For split spec, you sometimes have the same 42 shield as the BM. On a BM, you have usually 6 parry, but can have up to 20 if you drop base weapon according to RR at RR6. Moreover, if you are attacked from back or side, you have zero defense as a hero, but still got a little chance to evade as a BM (not much, but for low to-hit like slam it's also not too un-likely). “DAOC is not about what you can log. It's about what you can play :> ” Uthgard 1.0: <Die Lettanten> Ivia - 8L8 Nightshade - Lone Enforcer since 8L1. Uthgard 2.0: <Illuminated Stormriders> Oxy - Hero; Ivia - Nightshade.

isocleas2 Gryphon Knight Posts: 332 Joined: Apr 11, 2016 22:13	Reply with quote by isocleas2 » Jan 05, 2017 15:49 GreenP wrote:https://www.uthgard.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=122123#p122123 Blue wrote:From the code: Guard is influenced by shield size but only the attackers on the Guarder itself count not the guarded group member. This is propably incorrect. So if the guarder has no attacker on himself and the guarded group member 10 enemies, the guarder will block every enemy with no penalty. Sounds like a bug to me, at least thats what I read from the code. Edit: koruun wrote that this is live like. So regarding shield size and guarding for others, what is the current implementation? Is it like Blue said and shield size doesn't matter when guarding or as vlalkor stated and large shields are best? I don't care which shield is better for when enemies are attacking the shield tank, only the person he's guarding.

Shinyuka Myrmidon Posts: 152 Joined: Oct 19, 2013 13:15	Reply with quote by Shinyuka » Jan 05, 2017 16:06 shade wrote: Shinyuka wrote:50 shield + 38 parry + evade 1 < 42 shield + evade 3? Maths for that, please. I have never met any hero with that spec in RvR If you also spec spear and blades, it's likely that you have low or no parry. For split spec, you sometimes have the same 42 shield as the BM. On a BM, you have usually 6 parry, but can have up to 20 if you drop base weapon according to RR at RR6. Moreover, if you are attacked from back or side, you have zero defense as a hero, but still got a little chance to evade as a BM (not much, but for low to-hit like slam it's also not too un-likely). Im sorry, it has to be 26 Parry on the hero ofc.. What do you mean with "you have never met someone with that spec" ? Is that an argument to support your point of view? 50 LW, 50 Shield, 6 CS, 10 Blades, 26 Parry is a viable spec from my perspective. You dont have to agree on that, but you seem to be very forward with your own claims and can't support them with anything else than your own observations. Which may be enough for you, but if someone comes along and says a bm has more def than hero, just because he has 42 shield and evade 3, he better has something to back that up. And yes, a hero has zero defense from behind, and in that scenario the bm has an advantage due to his advanced evade - no doubt about that. But being hit from behind isnt the only scenario I am thinking about in that matter. If you get hit from behind as guard tank all the time, either you or your enemy is doing something very wrong.

Ganaka Myrmidon Posts: 204 Joined: Dec 01, 2016 22:39	Reply with quote by Ganaka » Jan 05, 2017 17:04 I decided that I'm playing a Lurikeen as my main. I would make a Lurikeen Shieldmaster if I could. But, since I can't, I'm going to make my main a Nightshade and my alt a Hero. [rant] I really dislike the race-class restrictions in this game. I can understand not wanting to see a Firbolg Assassin, Firbolg Eldritch, or Elven Druid. But, every race should be able to become a Hero or Blademaster, since neither are considered magical. Race-Class restrictions are a big turn off to me. I should be able to gimp my character as much as I choose.[/rant]

Trishin Game Master Posts: 5048 Joined: Apr 07, 2010 00:00	Reply with quote by Trishin » Jan 05, 2017 17:15 Pretty sure lurikeens can roll hero? Got any questions? Submit them to me and I will try to get them answered in our grab bag ! Rajnish wrote:Why didn't someone warn me that being GM means lots of boring research, logging, testing and organizing data.... I thought it was all about looking cool.... Uthgard Rules \|\| How to connect \|\| FAQ