You know Midgard got Celerity? Means as long as it's running both Savages and Berserkers hit with Cap Speed. Else Savages hit with Cap Speed and Berserkers with realy slow weapons hit with round about 2 seconds delay. HUGE difference, isn't it?

Toblerone it was 85% con, not 70.

I better don't even start talking about the 500 difference in weaponskill between the 2 classes and the 0 to hit bonus on all anytimers of the Savage. (yes sometimes if your enemy faces you you will have to use them )

Satz wrote:svg, about 60 qui even as a troll. +75+90(buffs and sc)

58 qui to be precise. How do you get a +90 for buff? There is very few sham with red d/q, most of the time you have ±65

Using 2 4,0 weapons, savage hits with roughly 1,6 combatspeed

Resulting in fact in 1.75 combatspeed.

Now a trollzerk, using 4,0 mainhand and a 3,0 offhand. 35+75 qui, +30 buffqui

So zerk are never allowed to get a haste and they use a weapon which not exist. Closer left axe is 2.9 speed.

This results in 2,9 combatspeed

More like 2.4 in fact.

Still svg are twice faster?

In conclusion : How to arrange number to show what we want...

Savages out damage a berserker when 2 or more hands fire. If savage was restricted to mainhand only, berserker would do more DPS.


Thankfully that's not the case and savage wins unless the zerk hits vendo.

Maybe you did not know yet, that ws does not influence any defense(but evade), as blue already stated somewhere.

@ stats, estimated values, not all svges are trolls without +qui, and +/-65 d/q??? do all your shamans have blue buffs only? 63*1,25=78+ last time i checked my cleric. So, a savage is not allowed to get cele? If you start talking about realistic weaponspeed, then give both 4,2 spd weapons and both should get cele, as to why svg will easily reach cap. Dont forget 25% basebonusselfbuff, it does a lot, and by getting cele, zerker looses styledmg. And so is no longer able to come close to 300 dmg per hit.

Cele? we were talking about their usual dps, not their dps under best sircumstances were we not? Under best possible sircumstances, my bard will outdps your savage in melee if we start talking about BEST POSSIBLE SITUATIONS!

I give up this thread, its like talking with a gradeschooler that always asks: why?

Keep running with your 85% condition weapons and wonder why you dont deal as much damage as others.

Toblerone wrote:

Heli wrote:Maybe i'm ignorant and absolutely blind but at least i own a Savage and can tell what i experienced while playing him for 4 years. What about you mister Satz?

How many of those 4 years was with 70% con weapons ?

Heli wrote:Toblerone it was 85% con, not 70.

80% im pretty sure !

Best situations possible? That would be AOG 3+11 DPS damageadd+sitting enemies in RvR. Having yellow Celerity and yellow combatspeed is quite normal in Midgard as long as the supporters are knowing what they are doing.

You're right. Ws is only influencing evade. But the to hit bonus is influencing more than evade and the Savage is missing it on the anytimers and as far as i know the ws is influencing the chance to miss (Savages do that pretty often).

Maybe I was running with 85% con weapons after a long day of RvR and PvM but at least i never needed to put my crappy epic armor on like some pala we all know. OK back to topic plz. Otherwhise maybe somebody will start bullying somebodys mother here in a few minutes.

Back in the days, when you started here and there were only like 10-15 lvl 50 chars around on whole server, without craftinsystem, tajendi or other drops, epic armor was one of the best if not the best armor you could get. And yes, i stopped playing my pally short time after.

Miss or not is all about luck. Svg dont spec charge, therefore get mopain easier. There is a chance to land a multicrit-quad with 4 weaponprocs while having aog3 on. This might even cause a supporter with 1500+ hps to fall instantly.

Why would you use anytimers on savage when you have perfectly good side and back styles ?

Then the Staff must have nerfed the luck of all the Savages out there on Uthgard. STOP NERFING OUR LUCK!!! No really you miss much more with a Hand to Hand Savage than with a Berserker or any other tank or light tank class. And remember: the chance to land a quad hit is between 1 and 3% at level 50. The chance to add crit damage on a hit is round about 50% with mopain 5. The chance to proc is... don't realy know... maybe 10%?... So quad hits with crits and procs are pretty rare.

Toblerone wrote:Why would you use anytimers on savage when you have perfectly good side and back styles ?

Because you can't strafe around all the time?

I wouldn't mind a 1-3% chance of instakilling a caster.

Toblerone wrote:Why would you use anytimers on savage when you have perfectly good side and back styles ?

because smart groups have their casters /face with a guard if they get caught by a savage.

And smart tanks know how to use positionals on targets who /face.

Lol oopsie I said smart tanks, not on uth , here being smart is called bug abuse.

do you back up positional styles when you are trying to get around /face with an anytime style?


If you do, then why? If you can always land the positional, why back it up with an anytime?


If you don't backup your positional styles against /face targets then you don't have a right to talk about other people not being smart on tanks.



EDIT: also, the savage anytime style is like .89GR so not using it as a backup would be silly. 1 missed style would be way more lost dmg than the difference between the anytime and a positional.

@ stats, estimated values, not all svges are trolls without +qui, and +/-65 d/q??? do all your shamans have blue buffs only? 63*1,25=78+ last time i checked my cleric.

i said ±65 cause i think it's 63 when you charge it what happen often in mid and sham yellow d/q is 72 cause delve is 58 and not 63 like clerics, sorry.

And like i said «How to arrange number to show what we want...»

Heli wrote:Best situations possible? That would be AOG 3+11 DPS damageadd+sitting enemies in RvR. Having yellow Celerity and yellow combatspeed is quite normal in Midgard as long as the supporters are knowing what they are doing.

Let me quote ... i just had AOG 3 run with my svg.. quess what my DPS was on a VW ? 220mh +20sham dmgadd +130aog3 +150oh +20sham dmgadd +130aog3 +70proc +150oh +20sham dmgadd +130aog3 +70proc +150oh +20sham dmgadd+130aog3 = 1410 (-+200) cause i didnt make a screene out of that :S

And i can ensure that such hits hapens kina often.

And my weapons speed is aproc 1.51 with myself haste

2x 4.0spd wep, aprox 250quic (hard cap for weapon speed calc) with yellow d/q and self haste wich is 39%

+healers cant run behind, celeriting u 24/7..... and mentioned before svg have end ALL THE TIME.
I was abel to play troll berz with charge and stuff.. but guess what HE WAS OOE so i wasnt abel to draw any styles + the dmg was <200 @ chain

Yes i confirm that berz dmg is more stabel and he does more dmg compare the 1h hits and he have CHARGE (overrated, get det5 and u dont need charge). But svg is so biljon ways better.

What u can do against block ? STRAFE use your ennemys weakness wich is hit behind.

1 more statement... Berz > Svg in a duel... Svg > Berz in RvR
See svg is not a SOLO charr, savage is 120% team play char, with fully buffed it is a MEAN machine.

But in the end its only about playstyle...
If you like overextending with charge+teddy with hope to bring someone down and die cause you were out of range then pick BERSERKER or you like the teamplay, like to have more toys to play with and be abele to survive more and not like to overextend so much then pick SAVAGE.

End of Story.

WTB more Savage love, and NSS is reqruiting savages + support