holsten-knight wrote:

Panchos wrote:Good luck to the OP, I hope you guys do alright because there has not been one non hib caster grp that has done well over a long period of time at all here from what I've seen.

DG trying their caster setups shows how pathetic mids are when they go from zerker/savage spam to a setup that requires the same concentration and skill as most hib grps when albs and mids can form just as good if not better caster groups.

the main reason our caster setups did not work so well is: when we were caster setup in the last month we were just fun grp, with like 2 pac healer no aug healer, or people being the first time in rvr.
And we even never had a chance for debuff nukes, because of just random caster setup.

I can remember one evening with a more serious approach of a acaster grp (about 2 months ago at least) where we killed tc two times while got killed just once and had an rp average of 15k+

While when we run melee setup we are at least 5 of our sg setup, which plays together for more than 6 months now .

Playing caster grp is not really so much more of a challange

playing caster grps against other caster grps isnt much of a challenge sure

playing a caster grp against a grp with 4 tanks sosing and charging is another story

A grp with 4-5 tanks charging and split assisting will always be an easier playstyle than 3-4 caster grp that must rely on prekiting and good coordination to drop targets on a server with no speedwarp and absolute terrible casting speed and casting damage.

I do not see your logic for thinking caster grps are not harder on this server especially.

rupt code here is easy mode, even if damage is low.

QeoSereai wrote:In order to keep this going on, please everybody who is still in send me a PM so i know what we still have and what we need.

I am still thinking a castgroup will be a fine thing, and we can do well with good training and experience.

For i cannot edit the opening post i will make this one for the setup.

In are (will be editet up to date):

Qeo (Healer Pac/Mend)
Johannah (Healer Aug/Mend)
Ace (Warrior)

We will usually run at 19 00 gmt+1 except sundays cause of the public raids.

<img src="http://www.die-webas.de/daoc/sig.php?chars=Qeo;Rodgrodog;Scirious;Vobaldt;Fearegrim;Thuardo">

hey qeo i'm in

Goodbye Crushman!

QQ

Force wrote:rupt code here is easy mode, even if damage is low.

really now?

ooooh i guess this is why so many caster groups dominate eh?

guess those mid groups are playing it realllly hardmode with 4-5 tanks and 0-1 casters

Panchos wrote:

Force wrote:rupt code here is easy mode, even if damage is low.

really now?

ooooh i guess this is why so many caster groups dominate eh?

guess those mid groups are playing it realllly hardmode with 4-5 tanks and 0-1 casters

Ya, rupt code is broken. And even with rupt code being broken people have trouble playing well in caster setups. Takes more team coordination, even if the rupt code is broken, than playing pure tank groups.


You know this. Your BM was in a group of 16+ (you were in an 8 man and we had another 8+ add almost immediately, fight started near Ailine and extended away from there) we rolled with a 3 caster GG. Didn't wanna go there, but I don't think we would have won that fight with all tanks.


The hib and alb groups that have as many or more casters than tanks are the hardest and most often lost fights for us as well.



Just because rupt code here is way easier to deal with than live, doesn't mean that caster groups are easier to play than tank groups. They obviously aren't. And if you don't play a caster well, it really doesn't matter how short the rupt timer is. Key turning to prekite is always going to leave you getting raped.

So I am not saying that caster groups are easy to play. But the rupt code sure as hell makes it a lot easier than it would be. With this setting I don't even know if casters would get anything off with a 4 second timer. BD/Skald could practically lock an entire group with live like interrupting.

for sure a caster grp against a tank grp is not easy to play, i never said that.
I even agree caster grp is in most cases a bit more challenging than a pure tank grp, while i think hybrid grps are the hardest but most efficent when played good.

But tank grp against tank grp isn't easy either (had some nice fights like that against rare yesterday).

And tank grp against good kiting caster grp isn't easy also.

It always depends on who you encounter, and it is more easy to call mid tank grps easy mode than to play one

we played yesterday the first time... hm i guess since world championship started, more than a month... again, and we noticed the missing practise a lot.

When slot free, take my Bd

So we are still looking for a Shaman, Runemaster and 4th caster.

<img src="http://www.die-webas.de/daoc/sig.php?chars=Qeo;Rodgrodog;Scirious;Vobaldt;Fearegrim;Thuardo">

is it a castergrp or addgrp?

A good is 1 thing in a caster group, but the fact that many have charge &/ stun up almost perma doesn't make it easier either, and in that point of view OF RA's will be a bless towards caster groups.

BTW Qeo have been almost every evening but I haven't seen the Mid group yet ... :s

holsten-knight wrote:for sure a caster grp against a tank grp is not easy to play, i never said that.
I even agree caster grp is in most cases a bit more challenging than a pure tank grp, while i think hybrid grps are the hardest but most efficent when played good.

But tank grp against tank grp isn't easy either (had some nice fights like that against rare yesterday).

And tank grp against good kiting caster grp isn't easy also.

It always depends on who you encounter, and it is more easy to call mid tank grps easy mode than to play one

we played yesterday the first time... hm i guess since world championship started, more than a month... again, and we noticed the missing practise a lot.

Actually its easy to play a tank grp against a good kiting caster group here when you have charge, sos, no speedwarp, ichor etc. And it takes 3 casters all assisting to actually take down tanks. 2 casters assisting still takes some 4 seconds to drop a target its sad. Even with debuff a rr8 eld will nuke for 420 at 2.0 sec casting speed. And yet i've seen a zerker 2 shot our casters with celerity and charge up, which is uncounterable. Anguish was the only real guild who knew how to push properly and they showed just how wide the discrepancy is. Until Rare and KT finally found out how to push on us, we won more fights. Now the fact that they actually know how to push they beat us more often.

Most tanks are just stupid and overextend, while enemy support doesnt know how to root hib supports, which pretty much wins the fight.

I have played shammy in mid tank grps and the difficulty of playstyle is absolutely laughable. I could single handedly win fights vs hib caster grps with just ichor on inc and rooting/diseasing enemy support. The fact that a mid tank grp like DG could win so many fights with players like legulas shows this. Our caster group automatically goes to crap against good grps when we invite players with that kind of (or lack of) skill.

I'm not saying necessarily mid is easy mode, but the tank grps it puts out is much easier in terms of playstyle than hib caster groups. Alb is actually stronger than mid imho but requires more solid players.

And I agree hybrid groups are the way to go on live servers. But here the best hybrid groups are on alb. Mid hybrid groups tbh arent as good as 4 tank 1 runie grps in my experience. I've never met a mid group with 2 or more casters that was harder than a gdrw group that simply ran 5 split assisting tanks.

this is simply not true. One zerker may kill a caster quick if no DI, bof, sb, am, healing, but that is the same for melee's.
2 caster can kill a tank without di, sb, baod, am, healing very quick.

Both situation happen very seldom, and i never saw a bersi two hit a caster in the beginning of a normal fight.

And with the broken rupt system one melee can't even rupt 2 caster standing next to each other.

And legulas may play else than the normal 1337 player, nevertheless he has the right RA's (guess he is the only skald with this RA setup on the server), knows the job we assigned him and does it.
We don't always run with him, but we are better with him than with anyone else, maybe just because he is part of our arranged tactic, but thats how it is [/b]

holsten-knight wrote:this is simply not true. One zerker may kill a caster quick if no DI, bof, sb, am, healing, but that is the same for melee's.
2 caster can kill a tank without di, sb, baod, am, healing very quick.

Both situation happen very seldom, and i never saw a bersi two hit a caster in the beginning of a normal fight.

And with the broken rupt system one melee can't even rupt 2 caster standing next to each other.

And legulas may play else than the normal 1337 player, nevertheless he has the right RA's (guess he is the only skald with this RA setup on the server), knows the job we assigned him and does it.
We don't always run with him, but we are better with him than with anyone else, maybe just because he is part of our arranged tactic, but thats how it is [/b]

A zerker 2 shotting a caster when charged/vendo'd is easy to believe when DI and BOF are down. Although usually its more of 3-4 shot at cap speed. There have been plenty of times I've seen 2 DI2's go down before a group's zerker's charge/vendo is down.

And yes rupt code is broken but IMHO that still does not make up for casting speed and casting damage being terrible here. Would you rather have the rupt code better in place? Or would you rather have casters starting to nuke for 600-800 at cap speed like they do on live with debuffs?

And just because that skald has the right RA's and sticks a support doesn't disprove what I just stated earlier. He still does not play nearly as well as his class can, and that kind of bad play cannot really be "carried" by a high rr group on hib quite as easily. One bad caster who doesn't prekite on a kiting group will, and does, ruin the chances of the group winning.

holsten-knight wrote:this is simply not true. One zerker may kill a caster quick if no DI, bof, sb, am, healing, but that is the same for melee's.
2 caster can kill a tank without di, sb, baod, am, healing very quick.

Both situation happen very seldom, and i never saw a bersi two hit a caster in the beginning of a normal fight.

And with the broken rupt system one melee can't even rupt 2 caster standing next to each other.

And legulas may play else than the normal 1337 player, nevertheless he has the right RA's (guess he is the only skald with this RA setup on the server), knows the job we assigned him and does it.
We don't always run with him, but we are better with him than with anyone else, maybe just because he is part of our arranged tactic, but thats how it is [/b]

A zerker 2 shotting a caster when charged/vendo'd is easy to believe when DI and BOF are down. Although usually its more of 3-4 shot at cap speed. There have been plenty of times I've seen 2 DI2's go down before a group's zerker's charge/vendo is down.

And yes rupt code is broken but IMHO that still does not make up for casting speed and casting damage being terrible here. Would you rather have the rupt code better in place? Or would you rather have casters starting to nuke for 600-800 at cap speed like they do on live with debuffs?

And just because that skald has the right RA's and sticks a support doesn't disprove what I just stated earlier. He still does not play nearly as well as his class can, and that kind of bad play cannot really be "carried" by a high rr group on hib quite as easily. One bad caster who doesn't prekite on a kiting group will, and does, ruin the chances of the group winning.

i agree that a zerker on your ass gives a caster a hard time, but that is how it is ment to be isn't it?

And don't believe this is going to change with of ra's just because charge is gone. Mid melee grps used to own hib caster grps even harder with of ra's (why i explained enough in different posts).

And believe me, as legulas is my flat mate i really tried to give him advice, but it didn't work out. He plays the best when playing his own style... and since rupt system is broken the way it is his blasting out all dd's at once don't make any difference, since he could not rupt anything more with better play style xD

At least he improved in using mezz and snare since his last video

and i used to play with some rr 10+ hib casters in mid melee pug grps the last days and they were really bad zerkers (i could witness very well as i played healer and they were always out of heal range xD ).