Prolly one of the shamans just sticking and pbaoe diseasing.

Troll will out-damage a kobold big time!!!

Disdain wrote:No you just do significantly lower damage.

The block skill is based purely on Dex, so It would show that, unless it is completely broken, a warrior with higer Dex will block more often and more consistently than a warrior with low Dex. I rolled a Kobi Warrior and found that in PvE at least I block alot. This means more reactionary styles for an increased damage output and bonus effects as well. It is easy to point out the obvious and even easier to be cynical about it, but thanks for your contribution.

Asloan wrote:Just to make some things clear to you:

All I can say is WOW. Please make it clear for me cuz apparently I am blind....

Asloan wrote:20 Con on a shaman means an asswhooping advantage of 70! Hp, while loosing 35 dex on a non ToA Server, without +buff and +castspeed, mean you loose something between 0.15 and 0.2 seconds per cast. Adding in the fact, that you are way easier to target, Troll simply is the worst choice possible for Shaman.

I seriously doubt that 0.15 to 0.20 seconds per cast is going to make my troll shaman gimp. Especially for a toon that is primarily used for spamming disease, buff shearing, and interrupting enemy casters. These numbers really show that difference is nominal either way. With in the Trolls natural resists being different plus the extra few Hp and it is a more durable alternative. I have seen first hand how successful this race choice can be. Targeting is only an issue for rookies anyway, being a kobold is not much defense against being targeted. Besides if a Troll shaman is as uncommon as many have said in this thread it will probably take the enemy a moment to realize exactly what I am anyway. Giving me a few moments of surprise peek a boo!

Asloan wrote:Just to proove to you, that i did read your "out of the box" post: Yes, thinking out of the box can sometimes help, but gimping your char in a big way, is not thinking "out of the box", but ignoring facts and simple math.

You don't have to prove anything to me. I appreciate you bringing in the numbers on this different choice, I do. It is a different approach which will require a different play style. It is not ignoring fact or rewriting physics. It is an OPINION not a fact that a Kobold makes a better shaman than a Troll. They are two completely different builds. I am playing the game in a way that will be the most fun for me and which will also, I hope, encourage others to have fun and relax.

Well then, in which roll is beeing a troll an improvement over beeing a kobold? Rupting? nope, Kobold casts faster, better choice. Healing? Nope, Kobold casts faster, better choice. Buffing? Same for both. Size? Beeing smaller as a casting char is an advantage, so nope once again. Since you seem to know more about how you can play a shaman, please enlighten me. Btw. all those things are FACTS not OPINIONS. Now i would love to see which facts back up your statements.

prolly the fact that a troll shaman can be mistaken for a warrior.

Biggest problem with that... you meet the same grps here everyday. So maybe you can surprise them once maybe even twice (some are really slow minded ), but then every of the regular running grps will know you

but go and tell them wrong
On live some of the best shamans were trolls, although mostly after toa release where cast speed due to dex didn't really matter anymore.

I have no idea why you think casting speed didn't matter with toa. You still needed 26 overcap + capped +% casting speed + augdex as a LURIKEEN MAGE to cap casting speed. As if having toa magically caps casting speeds rofl

Asloan wrote:Well then, in which roll is beeing a troll an improvement over beeing a kobold? Rupting? nope, Kobold casts faster, better choice. Healing? Nope, Kobold casts faster, better choice. Buffing? Same for both. Size? Beeing smaller as a casting char is an advantage, so nope once again. Since you seem to know more about how you can play a shaman, please enlighten me. Btw. all those things are FACTS not OPINIONS. Now i would love to see which facts back up your statements.

Ok, you are getting way too excited over this topic. Casting faster is great, sure, but at a difference of a fraction of a second (less than 1/4 of a second) slower it is nominal difference. It is not going to make a huge difference in any circumstance. And I hope that my group is not relying on the Shaman to heal too much, as a back up healer sure, but that's what healers are for that is why midgard has dedicated healers.

Again if someone has a hard time targeting another player based on their size I am not too worried about them anyway.

Again everything you stated is based on the OPINION that a Kobold is the ONLY way to play a Shaman. You are completely wrong. There are many ways to play every class in this game. This is not an issue of facts it is an issue of opinions. I don't need to back up my statements or prove myself to anyone. This is a GAME that is designed for entertainment.

I never stated that I knew more about anything than anyone else. I also never said that being a troll shaman is an improvement over being a kobold shaman. Saying that "a troll is the worst choice for a shaman" is an OPINION. Factual data can be quantified into hard numbers, matters of quality are based on opinion and perspective. Spicy food is not better than tangy food it is just different. Stating that a troll will cast 0.15 seconds slower than a kobold IS a fact. This one fact does not mean that a Kobold is universally better than a Troll. Even if 90% of people agree with your opinion it does not become a fact, it remains an opinion.

It's not the only way to play shaman but far superior. This is not an opinion, it's facts, a shaman only relies on casting speed and casting speed is what you need. 1/4 of a second may not seem like much when you look at it like this, but ingame you definitely notice it and it's a lot.

Disdain wrote:It's not the only way to play shaman but far superior. This is not an opinion, it's facts, a shaman only relies on casting speed and casting speed is what you need. 1/4 of a second may not seem like much when you look at it like this, but ingame you definitely notice it and it's a lot.

Everything you just typed is an opinion based on your own personal experience and thought process. It is a blanket statement that cannot be proven or quantified. it is the same a saying that because the sky is blue for 70% of the day it is always blue and never any other color. This is not a fact and it never will be.

A shaman relies on much more than just casting speed. The shamans total Hp IS a factor. The players ability to pick out key targets will always be a factor, there are plenty of other variables that add up into a very complex equation for what makes a good shaman. The slight difference in casting speed, Hp, etc. is so small that a players ability to play will be more apparent than any other factor.

I guess we need the actual definition of an opinion:

"An opinion is a subjective statement or thought about an issue or topic, and is the result of emotion or interpretation of facts. An opinion may be supported by an argument, although people may draw opposing opinions from the same set of facts. Opinions rarely change without new arguments being presented. However, it can be reasoned that one opinion is better supported by the facts than another by analysing the supporting arguments."

"An opinion may be the result of a person's perspective, understanding, particular feelings, beliefs, and desires. In casual use, the term opinion may refer to unsubstantiated information, in contrast to knowledge and fact-based beliefs."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion

This is not a black and white issue. I don't know why it is being contested so feverishly by so many players of this great game. I am not contesting anyone's right to an opinion. I am not targeting anyone's toon and calling them out. I am not even being aggressive or rude to anyone. I NEVER stated that my Troll Shaman would be the end all be all shaman of all time. I never said it was better than a Kobold Shaman. All I ever stated was that I am playing a Troll Shaman, if you don't like it fine. That is your opinion.

Your funeral. Enjoy the regret after you hit 50.

holsten-knight wrote:On live some of the best shamans were trolls

This is a very valid opinion, one that I share. I personally played with a few very successful Troll Shamans in end game RvR.

Disdain wrote:Your funeral. Enjoy the regret after you hit 50.

To all you nay sayers who are as adamant about my Troll Shaman like Disdain here: You all do a great job at making the new guy feel very welcome on Uthgard. Perhaps it is not the shortcomings of the server, the endgame RvR or the patch chosen to run the server that has the population on the server lower than in the past. I wouldn't know as I am new, but I have read plenty of posts complaining about this or that and saying that the server pop is low compared to times past. Maybe its the way many of you regard each other. Perhaps all the negativity and criticism and sarcasm make for an unpleasant environment...

Disdain, let it go man. What do you care what toon I play. You are obviously not trying to make any friends or even really provide anything constructive on this thread. I get it, you are right and I am wrong. Thank you for making it so clear to me. If I ever need to know exactly how you want me to play I will make sure to send you a PM. Thanks Chief.

Hmm... This is getting very interesting...

I think ill roll an avalonian merc or elf bm, or maybe a valkyn zerk in near future...

What do you think about that?

I provided everything constructive that could be provided:

Disdain wrote:A shaman only relies on casting speed and casting speed is what you need. 1/4 of a second may not seem like much when you look at it like this, but ingame you definitely notice it and it's a lot.

If you think there's some sort of flaming in there by all means please point it out.

As was originally said.... there is something to be said about the element of surprise. There has to be at least some advantage to seeing a troll... with a hammer (and if the player is smart, not the small shield give away) running around. Even the best players in the world will have to do a quick double take some of the time on this. If this results in more than a 0.15 second delay, it more than makes up for the cast time delay. This same theory can be applied to a skald carrying a small shield to appear as a shaman, or any other possible way to fool your opponent. Game mechanics play a part, but its not the only part. This is probably the single most frustrating thing about playing on uthgard. Players don't try to counteract the established norms which are in place. Every move you make should be anticipating what your opponent is going to do and finding the best way to exploit it. Instead the accepted practice seems to be following the like blind sheep.

PatmanBBE you best be trollin

Dont listen to the Forumtrolls here... Play what and how you want.. They all only know Mainstream.. Be unique!

greetings