Now that there is no more Charge/Stoicism, and Determination is the only CC-Reduction (Not counting Purge, but anyway is only 4pt both for Savage and Berserker)...

What is the current state of the Savages in the 1.65? I really don't remember the situation about them.

In Uthgard 1.0 I saw many Savages in 8v8 even if they lacked Charge, and the Damage was insane, much times I saw Savages surpass equal RR/Equip Berserkers...

Now that Charge is gone, how is the Damage? I still probably know that the Defence-Part is still a lot better compared to a Berserker, and the Side Stun and Back Stun are really valuable (They still have it in that Patch?) compared to a Berserker that does not have them.

(I know that against someone that have the Shield-Spec up, they are not the best, cause H2H is not considered Dual Wield, but normally if I'm not wrong you will deal 90% of your Damage against Healer/Support/Caster or anyway against someone that does not have the Shield)

But in terms of Damage?
In terms of Snare-Styles still only the After-Evade Snare??

Please guys, enlight me

some of the info you want is probably in this thread: http://www.uthgard.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=61&t=35950

Probably better than Berserker for sure as a Class, the real problem is not the Damage (That with some luck for quad-hit can even surpass the Vendo-Berserker) and not the Tankyness (100% way better the Tankyness of a Savage, Berserkers compared to them are like Cloth-User (Obviusly I'm exagerating, but you get the point))...

The real problem are two:

1) Prevent Flight... Personally I think that is not a big deal, the goodness of that RA is not questionable, but with a Back and Side Stun, Savages are on the same page as Berserkers that have none of that.

2) DW vs H2H... H2H is not considered a Dual Wielding, so you will not cut in half the defences (Block, Parry & Evade) of your enemy... Against a DW Class? No problem... Against a Mage? No problem... Against a Healer? No problem... You will encounter problem against someone that is Guarded or someone that have Shield-Spec (If it only have Shield, is not a huge problem, the problem come when it have a High Level Shield Spec)... So if you are against a Normal Target that isn't guarded, you will face exactly no problem, and I think that it will be even better of having a Berserker, but against a Hero/Shield-Merc/Shield-BM/Armsman/Paladin a Berserker will be better..

We must take in consideration a lot of things, the Shield-Tank will be always the last Target to focus, so is not a real problem... And if they overextend and they are the primary Target for that reason, they could have 50Shield & 50 Parry (Ironic) but they will be dead anyway.

So the only real problem are Guarded Target, but even that, the Guarder (The Shield-Tank) must be at 250Unit from his Guarded Groupmate, and is not easy to do everytime... So even this is avoidable with the use of CCs against the Shield-Tank...

how do you get to a savage being way more tanky than a zerk? sure a savage can pop defensive abilities but that comes out of you health shortly after. i guess if you consider consider evading a little more being more 'tanky' ....

Well, if you don't consider 25% more Parry, 25% more Evade and 25% more resist to Slash/Crush/Thrust being more Tanky... I don't know anymore what being Tanky mean...