I have two Questions, one about Berserker and one about Savage.

Taking in consideration that a Troll will start with 35 (58 for lvl50 Savage, still 35 for lvl50 Berserker) Quickness:

1) It is possibile to Cap Swing Speed for a Troll Berserker with a 4.2 Axe?
2) It is possible to Cap Swing Speed for a Troll Savage with a ?(Don't know the lowest Weapon Attack Speed for Thrust H2H) H2H?

1) yes

2) yes

But not without celerity running, but that's the case for almost every mid tank

go troll. the added DPS for the strength outweighs the slow speeds, and celerity ftw

PS I went 15str 10 qui at creation

You should go 15Dex 10Str for a Savage and 15Str 10Dex(Or Con) for Berserker, you will reach the swing cap anyway with celerity, and increasing Quickness will reduce the Damage output, (Quickness reduce the damage output, so more Quickness you have, less damage you deal, even if you swing faster... But if you reach the swing cap with celerity/haste + 75qui + buffs, you will have anyway swing cap speed and less quickness, so more damage)

hevi wrote:You should go 15Dex 10Str for a Savage and 15Str 10Dex(Or Con) for Berserker, you will reach the swing cap anyway with celerity, and increasing Quickness will reduce the Damage output, (Quickness reduce the damage output, so more Quickness you have, less damage you deal, even if you swing faster... But if you reach the swing cap with celerity/haste + 75qui + buffs, you will have anyway swing cap speed and less quickness, so more damage)

Wrong, wrong and wrong. Taking dex or con on bersersker is useless, 15str and 10qui is the way to go. You want to go as close to cap swing speed as possible. Yes, 10 quickness is not much, but it helps. Only morons count on having celerity all the time + there is such a thing as dexqui/attack speed debuff on other realms too, and maximized swing speed really helps against pbt and in rupting in general. Faster swing speed, more damage over time. Also, Koby/Valkyn savage can easily go 15str/10 dex, while troll can go either that or 15dex/10str.

Valfar wrote:

hevi wrote:You should go 15Dex 10Str for a Savage and 15Str 10Dex(Or Con) for Berserker, you will reach the swing cap anyway with celerity, and increasing Quickness will reduce the Damage output, (Quickness reduce the damage output, so more Quickness you have, less damage you deal, even if you swing faster... But if you reach the swing cap with celerity/haste + 75qui + buffs, you will have anyway swing cap speed and less quickness, so more damage)

Wrong, wrong and wrong. Taking dex or con on bersersker is useless, 15str and 10qui is the way to go. You want to go as close to cap swing speed as possible. Yes, 10 quickness is not much, but it helps. Only morons count on having celerity all the time + there is such a thing as dexqui/attack speed debuff on other realms too, and maximized swing speed really helps against pbt and in rupting in general. Faster swing speed, more damage over time. Also, Koby/Valkyn savage can easily go 15str/10 dex, while troll can go either that or 15dex/10str.

I will use what you said: Wrong, Wrong, Wrong... You don't even know how much Attack speed is having 10Quickness more with a 4.2 and want to talk

IMO 15 Str 10 Qui for zerker. If you are not sure about quick then do Con. Dex won't get you much as all Zerk weapons are 100% strength. You will only get some small gains to defense (evade/parry) from 10 Dex as a zerker. Quickness helps evade as well.

Some combo of Str/dex as mentioned for savages as H2H is 50% dex/50% str.

This is a pretty good explanation of quickness effect on melee damage from http://disorder.dk/daoc/melee-swing-speed-cap/:

Every 10 quickness you gain from 50 to 250 reduces your weapon speed by 1%. Increasing your quickness has a positive effect on your base damage over time BUT it has a detrimental effect on styled damage and all damage adds.

The net effect is slightly improved damage at the cost of having lower front load damage and higher endurance costs to style more often.

Consider this:

Code: Select all

Effective Speed = SPD * ( 1 – ( Quickness – 60 ) / 500) ) * ( 1 – Haste%)

Hammer berserker with 4.1 main, 2.9 off:
without celerity you need 307 qui for 1.5
with celerity you need 163 qui for 1.5

Hammer berserker with 4.1 main, 4.0 off:
without celerity you need 342 qui for 1.5
with celerity you need 217 qui for 1.5


A normal rvr aug healer can give you 15% haste buff and 31% celerity.
A normal rvr shaman can give you +72 qui from his buff (but most likely he will not have enough buffs to give you this).
A troll will have 35 base, and max 75 from template.

If you charge dex/qui and put 10 qui from start, it means that you only need 43 qui in template to reach 4.1/2.9 cap with celerity.

The max realistic qui with +10 start, +75 template and dex/qui charge is 195.