hardly anybody would do something besides RvR if proper gear came with i50 ... so to get endgame encounters, farm spots and epic quests tested we need to start off with crap gear
... epics should be set to start from lvl 30 epic though if possible

cheers

Njor wrote:- map - helpful but will be in anyway
- group window - dunno, I found it helpful, no biggie though, more info might be more confusing
- release city - extremely confusing ... why would you want to realease somewhere you did not bind? thats just a scheme to get around faster ... shortly after they will be asking for no xp penalty for dying so they can just get around faster
- 10 uses on a potion - not so confusing initially, but bad for the game, makes certain classes/specs less attractive ... and confusing for a new player who does not understand why her rejuv/enhance cleric is not grouped
- regen rates a little faster - not confusing, but the less you have to work for a reward the less incentive you have longterm, so thats bad for longterm server population which everybody is so concerned about

all that has nothing to do with how much time you have to invest in the game becasue you are 'grown up', at any rate less time to invest means you just level slower ... somebody who can spent 24/7 in a fast/easy to level game will still outperform you with 2 hours to spent per day

still don't know how you can be so upset about something which was clearly stated from the start, 1.65 is the target ... and yes, some things are not 1.65 like for various reasons, but thats up to staff to decide ... if you think DAoC 1.65 'a pain in the a** for people' I don't know why you want to play here

cheers

Every single answer you gave makes little to no sense besides maybe the maps, but you forgot to mention there will be no gps dot showing your own location (probably too confusing for new players )

You think more information in the group window will confuse players, when in actuality not knowing who in their grp is mezzed or diseased is probably wayyy more confusing.

10 uses on a potion is going to make a rejuv/enhance cleric obsolete? Please explain that one to me I really have no idea how you came about that. Unless you think people are now going to prefer the 20 value d/q and s/c pots, which is crazy.

/release city is extremely confusing and just one step away from xp penalty being removed completely? hyperbole at its finest.

Your take on pow regen may be the most revealing of all. You believe the overall pop will drop because people are leveling slightly faster? This imo is the great divide between the 1.65 enthusiast carebears the people who want a functioning server, you actually believe that people want to grind for weeks/months to 50. That is not what most people are here for, if you increase xp or pow regen slightly the majority will appreciate this...not drive them away.

In the end really the only real argument you have is that this is how it is in 1.65, its the stated goal and that's what they're going to do. That's fine, but please don't try and dress it up like this is what the player base wants or what will "confuse" them less.

Oh and your last point, daoc is dead game with a increasingly shrinking player pop. This is the only classic freeshard left worth playing, that's why people are here. Not for 1.65 strict adherence.

Njor wrote:hardly anybody would do something besides RvR if proper gear came with i50 ... so to get endgame encounters, farm spots and epic quests tested we need to start off with crap gear
... epics should be set to start from lvl 30 epic though if possible

cheers

There is basically no class in the game (except perhaps stealthers) that would even really need e.g. a dragon drop to get a capped SC. So from that point your argument doesn't hold a lot of water. Then there is the small matter of funds. What do you think will happen when i50 suddenly hits, you get 1k+ players eager to do RvR (or raid the dragon - those types of players exist, you know), and everyone (minus us few masochistic die-hards) needs to farm 5-10plats for their sc, plus jewely. The forums are gonna erupt into a complete ****** and the server will probably explode.

Me and my wife personally have a plan for I50. We´ll just roll BDs and farm all night long to get SC and AC up to top. Would be easier though with descent gear but we take what comes ^^.

And, to clean up misunderstandings, SC will be my main, Paci, and AC her main, zerker ^^

QeoSereai wrote:Me and my wife personally have a plan for I50. We´ll just roll BDs and farm all night long to get SC and AC up to top.

Which is a good plan, but one that a lot (and I mean A LOT) of people will have. Just thinking of the army of animist camping coruscating mines is gonna be a sight to behold. So yeah, complete disaster inc

Even if we are given full capped stuff, the dragons and legion etc will still get killed. It's beta and people do actually want to make sure things are working correctly. I have no doubt that the majority will be heading straight to emain - that's inevitable - but by not giving out decent gear we will be pigeon-holing every i50 into the same handful of farm spots or raids. I mean, dragon pop is what, 24hours or something? There's no way the population are going to wait around to take it it turns to kill it for some loot. Same goes with plat farming, there will be about 3 or 4 good spots and that'll be it.


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barto22 wrote:Even if we are given full capped stuff, the dragons and legion etc will still get killed. It's beta and people do actually want to make sure things are working correctly. I have no doubt that the majority will be heading straight to emain - that's inevitable - but by not giving out decent gear we will be pigeon-holing every i50 into the same handful of farm spots or raids. I mean, dragon pop is what, 24hours or something? There's no way the population are going to wait around to take it it turns to kill it for some loot. Same goes with plat farming, there will be about 3 or 4 good spots and that'll be it.


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I dislike needless pve but you're 100% right, we'd kill the dragon if for no other reason than to see how tough it is and how few of people we need to kill him. Since afterall on live we're going to need to kill him for our fancy full cap temps +charge gear so might as well figure it out on beta.

isocleas2 wrote:

Njor wrote:- map - helpful but will be in anyway
- group window - dunno, I found it helpful, no biggie though, more info might be more confusing
- release city - extremely confusing ... why would you want to realease somewhere you did not bind? thats just a scheme to get around faster ... shortly after they will be asking for no xp penalty for dying so they can just get around faster
- 10 uses on a potion - not so confusing initially, but bad for the game, makes certain classes/specs less attractive ... and confusing for a new player who does not understand why her rejuv/enhance cleric is not grouped
- regen rates a little faster - not confusing, but the less you have to work for a reward the less incentive you have longterm, so thats bad for longterm server population which everybody is so concerned about

all that has nothing to do with how much time you have to invest in the game becasue you are 'grown up', at any rate less time to invest means you just level slower ... somebody who can spent 24/7 in a fast/easy to level game will still outperform you with 2 hours to spent per day

still don't know how you can be so upset about something which was clearly stated from the start, 1.65 is the target ... and yes, some things are not 1.65 like for various reasons, but thats up to staff to decide ... if you think DAoC 1.65 'a pain in the a** for people' I don't know why you want to play here

cheers

Every single answer you gave makes little to no sense besides maybe the maps, but you forgot to mention there will be no gps dot showing your own location (probably too confusing for new players )

You think more information in the group window will confuse players, when in actuality not knowing who in their grp is mezzed or diseased is probably wayyy more confusing.

10 uses on a potion is going to make a rejuv/enhance cleric obsolete? Please explain that one to me I really have no idea how you came about that. Unless you think people are now going to prefer the 20 value d/q and s/c pots, which is crazy.

/release city is extremely confusing and just one step away from xp penalty being removed completely? hyperbole at its finest.

Your take on pow regen may be the most revealing of all. You believe the overall pop will drop because people are leveling slightly faster? This imo is the great divide between the 1.65 enthusiast carebears the people who want a functioning server, you actually believe that people want to grind for weeks/months to 50. That is not what most people are here for, if you increase xp or pow regen slightly the majority will appreciate this...not drive them away.

In the end really the only real argument you have is that this is how it is in 1.65, its the stated goal and that's what they're going to do. That's fine, but please don't try and dress it up like this is what the player base wants or what will "confuse" them less.

Oh and your last point, daoc is dead game with a increasingly shrinking player pop. This is the only classic freeshard left worth playing, that's why people are here. Not for 1.65 strict adherence.

your answers clearly show your point of view, which is lvl 50/RvR focussed ... and that is a valid view but not the only one ... and certainly not the one which in any way promotes the needs of new players and/or players levelling ... and imho are also not good for the longterm health of the server

now, while you are levelling and/or a new player things look different

- a gps dot in the map removes any need to orient yourself at the environment, destroys immersion bigtime
- the group window is helpful but missing bits of info forces players to interact with each other (which is a good thing), use /macro if they don't have TS ... and new players won't be missing what they never had
- while pots don't do much for level 50s they will impact grouping while levelling, pots are powerful enough to make certain classes/specs not that helpful in groups/duos
- in regards to power regen my argument stands, anything that requires consistent effort over a longer period of time is bound to leave a deeper sense of accomplishment, it makes achievements feel more significant longterm

power regen does not affect RvR foucussed veterans that much, they've been there and done it all, might need a tad more time to get where they want, on the other hand it has a very positive impact on new players to stay with the game

cheers

Well spoken Njor. There are definitely more than 50/RvR points of view here.

The GPS dot would certainly break immersion for me. Thank you.

The group window should help players to communicate! I agree. I wonder if not being automatically put into the starter guilds would help too. This leads to the severe trolling situation we have all probably seen. A mess. I tend to leave the starter guild just to avoid being bored to tears rather quickly. I never did like starter guilds, but I guess that is how things were in 1.65, sadly. I know you can ignore and rpfilter, but sometime I may need one of these trolls, or them me, and if there is to be realm pride, simply ignoring your realmmates, even the more annoying ones, is no way to function.

I agree with what you said about potions, it reminds me of when spellcrafting and alchemy were introduced. They did much to validate the original crafting professions, but also lead to this min/max situation that serves to at least partially invalidate the rest of the game's dropped magic items, leading to the creation of expansions with more powerful drops, which lead to the situation many of us do not tolerate further. Gosh it makes my head hurt. You brought the focus where it should be, at least in my troubled brain, making potions not interfere with certain classes. Well said.

A deeper sense of accomplishment! Yes. I would prefer this game not be Dark Age of Counterstrike (I guess these days I should say dark age of callofduty). Anyway. Again I agree.

I am sorry I am not realy bringing many new points up, I just thought I would voice my opinions here on these forums, for a change, if it does any good. I am mainly focusing on trying to confirm these bugs on the issue list, and find more. This was a pleasant diversion though.

isocleas2 wrote: you actually believe that people want to grind for weeks/months to 50. That is not what most people are here for

Then you and the so called "most people" have chosen the wrong server, because that is part of it.
Do I like it? No. But I don´t want to miss it either.

isocleas2 wrote:This is the only classic freeshard left worth playing, that's why people are here. Not for 1.65 strict adherence.

I can't tell how other players feel, but I'm afraid this quote has a lot of truth in it. Already saw many people leaving, when Genesis opened. They didn't stay long there, but they left this server for it. So there might be something which many people miss on Uthgard.
And due to the fact that we all depend on each other to make a MMO work, we should think about that.

No matter what you do. Population will be low. It is an old game with a little fan base that has a binary reward system. Either you win the fight or loose it. If you are not on the sunny side it is a very demotivating system and that's why daoc will stay niche.
No modern online game has a binary reward system for good reasons. modern games always give you rewards if you just play. Winning or losing is not such a big difference so everyone stays motivated and enjoys the game.
So imo it's not about all these goodies ppl are crying for.its more the reward system that needs to be changed. But that's what you get if you play daoc.

well, me and my friends are just here cause of classic daoc, im already scared of this community who just wants to get everything easy, why dont you guys just Play on live Server and leave this sweet classic feeling to us? i dont get it

Kaischler wrote:well, me and my friends are just here cause of classic daoc, im already scared of this community who just wants to get everything easy, why dont you guys just Play on live Server and leave this sweet classic feeling to us? i dont get it

Because people want to play classic just like you do. Wanting it easier and wanting live daoc are completely different. If you can't see that then perhaps you could go to live and play there and only visit classic locations and only use classic items. They still exist and you'll still get the same experience.




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Murax wrote:

isocleas2 wrote: you actually believe that people want to grind for weeks/months to 50. That is not what most people are here for

Then you and the so called "most people" have chosen the wrong server, because that is part of it.
Do I like it? No. But I don´t want to miss it either.

Of course the grind to 50 is part of it, that's not the point.

What we were discussing is if a slight increase in power regen or xp gain would lead to the server pop going up or if it would lead to people leaving. I stand by that most players would appreciate the increase where as njor is of the opinion everyone wants to grind 200+ hours to 50 or else they won't feel a sense of accomplishment.

Beta is the time for discussing changes/bugs so if you don't like something maybe you should voice your opinion now before the launch comes.