since ur want slam/guard on a peeler idealy BM wont have more any attackspeed then a Hero plus Hero has Backsnare/Sidesnare as well

+hp
+armor
+moose
(and all 3 wpn types, even thou u most likely wont use CS if u want dps)

Hero also can get mastery of block, bm cant. Bm is great for peeling for sure but once the enemytanktrain reached your casters/supports you also want some extra block.

What I meant to say is would it work to run a Champ and VW to counter caster extend groups.

Albion caster extend groups seem to be the hardest comps to face right now on beta.

Vitticus wrote:What I meant to say is would it work to run a Champ and VW to counter caster extend groups.

Albion caster extend groups seem to be the hardest comps to face right now on beta.

I played alot tankgrp (pugs) and it worked quite fine most of the times as long as at least 2 det5 tanks were in front for getting pressure on their theo + sorcs all day.
VW and/ or champ would freelancing/rupting whatever casters are still able to cast.
VW will crack casters and also minstrel/mercs like nutshells if enemys fail to block/stop him.

Vitticus wrote:What I meant to say is would it work to run a Champ and VW to counter caster extend groups.

Albion caster extend groups seem to be the hardest comps to face right now on beta.

Imo there will be more quality mid push groups than there will be well played alb extend groups. Alb groups generally have less flexibility in class selection, caster groups require more group coordination so its harder to pug, and the time/money sink in making all those endu pots is going to deter a lot of people. Mid/push groups are just easier.

Besides with 2x GP as long as you run an eld you should be able to win the nearsight war more often than not, hard for an alb extend group to win when their casters have grape ns.

[............

2x Bards/ 1x bard 1x warden, hero got det5+stoic so body resis with 2 bards not really needed imo
2x Druids
1x Hero 50 shield MoBlock 3
1x ench mana
1x eld mana
1x eld light 37 light 39 mana

All 3 casters use heat nukes

2x elds means one can NS the other disease
1x ench as MA + debuffer

2x vp
1x baod
2x gp
2x am / 1x am and 1x twf
3x moc pbaoes

Hard for both mids and albs to play against.

Lots of interrupts, CC and easymode pbaoe damage

After blanket mezz 2x VP + 1 pbaoe from all 3 kills a whole group/zerg instantly.

VP on hib?

yeah, u need wiz for that mate ,)

no one would play with warden ? 8v8 ?

bard / 2xdrui / warden
hero
bm
bm
eld

why would u give up a 2nd bard for that?

Qju wrote:no one would play with warden ? 8v8 ?

bard / 2xdrui / warden
hero
bm
bm
eld

i would. besides the general advantages like resis, strong single heals and twf i think bt is strongly underestimated + you don't really need 2 bards if u got one good bard + a group that knows there positionplays. especially in a melee focused grp as you posted a warden can be a real pain for the peelers/split trains and makes the group real tanky and less vulnerable to melee cc's but thats more interesting for set groups. pugs rather should run 2 bards to keep the amnesia rupt high and get sure the whole group got some endu since this can be a problem especially for extend groups.

Makish wrote:yeah, u need wiz for that mate ,)

Yah your right, elds got neg maelstrom, which is useless in 1.65

Heguero wrote:

Qju wrote:no one would play with warden ? 8v8 ?

bard / 2xdrui / warden
hero
bm
bm
eld

i would. besides the general advantages like resis, strong single heals and twf i think bt is strongly underestimated + you don't really need 2 bards if u got one good bard + a group that knows there positionplays. especially in a melee focused grp as you posted a warden can be a real pain for the peelers/split trains and makes the group real tanky and less vulnerable to melee cc's but thats more interesting for set groups. pugs rather should run 2 bards to keep the amnesia rupt high and get sure the whole group got some endu since this can be a problem especially for extend groups.

Having 2x bards opens up a lot of things for hibs.

You can't stack 3-4 tanks on inc on the bard to prevent mezz + get 7 vs 8 situation easily.

The mezz is guaranteed basically which means enemy has to spread as well on inc and start the standoff, which they will loose vs 2x bards 2x elds and 1x ench.

Easy mode speed 6, always endo and speed up
2x aoe amnesia that will wizard away a lot of heals during assist nuking time (hard to time but the potential is there)

One or both bards can be specced for 20 reg 190 value heal which heals for 220 ( add relic bonus, mastery of healing etc), so can somewhat match a wardens in fight healing capability.

During long kites you will have mezz comming from more then one direction, which is of course a big advantage. One bard can go deep the other stays in backline.

In a caster setup with only 1 det5+stoic tank wardens body resis isnt gonna have the same impact as if you had 2-3 bms det 5 but no stoic that needs as much free non CC time as they can get.

6s PBT + guard from 50 shield + mob3 hero is really nice though.


2x bards or 1x bard 1x warden hard call, but I prefer 2x bards since it makes playing bard more fun for both bards.

I quit playing right about the time 1.65 would have come out I think. I quit in late 03 just before release of TOA.

At the time I played the most, the big Hib 8 man group was a caster group with a bard, druid and warden. I played Warden and was pretty much a bubble bot and did a lot of healing. Melee assist when there wasn't healing to do.

When I was quitting, I remember my regular group were all rerolling melee.

I think this was around the time of 1.65 as I understand.

At that time Warden was pretty much a must in 8v8 groups because of highest bubble chant and resists. Is not the case anymore?

Just getting back into this after many years, so trying to figure everything out.