This thread is not about cookie cutter groups, its about, alternative/optimalish groups with melees in em.

Reason i am doing this small guide is coz I am a bit... sad .. about some players(who lead Hib groups) ignoring totally some of Hib players due to their class or specline they play. Also remember that we have some new players on our hands.

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Starting info

Caster group with multiple healers and a enchanter focus pet pull can handle red/purple pulls => the most common problem is, what happens when the pet dies or pet looses aggro on some of the red/purples. => i can tell you what happens in normal groups, they wipe.

Now the funny thing at the point of <insert o crap moment here> is that those melee capable classes they totally ignore, can taunt the mobs and let the rest of the group survive and kill the mobs as a team. ( a good group leader reminds the melees when the group starts, that remember to use taunt vs mobs on healers/enchanter(AoEing) ).

Any mob not hitting the enchanter pet, needs to be stunned/taunted or single DD nuked by any DD capable caster. So when the AoE starts, all of the mobs have something else to hit then AoEr.

Also to note, if there is NO AoE damage, use Animist Creep pets in groups of 6-9 to give enuff dps to kill the whole focus pull faster. (the bigger the mobs are in level, the bigger level shrooms the Ani needs to use). => i would personally not pull purples if there is only one Ani (red/orange is best to be pulled by Ani group(shroom dmg tends to be resisted by purples a lot).

- All casters with Quickcast can use it to go "negative" mana, cast the biggest spell you need when you go oom with it. (good with Ani, as you can cast the biggest shroom you got with it when oom).

- Also players, need to be told/teached how to reset a mob.(ie. deep purple agro that needs to be lured away to reset it/or named, obviously does not work in Dungeon).

- Also the whole group need to be informed if the puller pulls... way too much in one go. (usually enchanter pet dies and whole group dies in a result). A good puller always have a macro for it ( /macro XXX /group >> Overpull << RUN/Reset )

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Here is two templates with remarks, that work and have a wide possibility for group composition.

Focus group *with* melees
1. Mentalist (using Hot/Pom mainly)
2. Enchanter (focus pet)
3. AoE capable caster
4. Any Healer
5. Any Healer
6. Any caster dps
7. Any Melee
8. Any Melee

Spots 6, 7, 8 are the ones who tie down stray mobs with over nuking or taunt (when AoE starts). Any agro on Healers should be taunted by melees asap. In those moments where all else fails => all out dps by all dps classes is the best solution to resolve the agro issues. ( as long as people have decent(green-yellow) armor on ).

- Sidenote: Focus puller should use go to command to pull aggressive mobs. Passive is a good idea also.
- The more buffs and the bigger buffs the focus pet has, the stronger it is. (good to remember).
- With melees a bard is a good bonus
- Healer means a heal capable class that has actually invested skill points to healing...
- This group can pull up to purple, but i would not pull too many purps (1 max imo in mix), deep purple mobs can be tricky, so it would be good to have one dps in group that has 1 or 2 levels more then the rest of the group. So the deep purple can be actually killed in this millenia.

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solo "creep" Animist only group
1. Mentalist (mandatory pure PoM spec).
2. Any AoE caster would be nice (=> AoE out when mobs all around 50-60% hp). *not mandatory, any dps is fine too*
3. Any Healer
4. Any Healer
5. Any Healer / Any dps
6. Any dps
7. Any dps
8. Any dps

Can pretty much chainpull orange groups(orange to Ani) of 3-5 per pull, if ani can handle manapool, the puller can "chain" pull 3 groups before shrooms die off and Ani is dry. Key in this kind of group is that those 4 extra DPS classes need to tie down all of the mobs until shrooms start pulling agro (randomly). => it can be confusing at start but it will be over pretty fast per pull.

- With melees a bard is a good bonus
- Healer means a heal capable class that has actually invested skill points to healing...
- Pointer for Animist, keep low level shrooms up after rest, 6-9 of em depending on number of mobs per pull. On each pull, cast 3 shrooms more. ON Megapull (reds with em) do the biggest shrooms you can and cast manapool to 0, and then use Quickcast to cast 1 big shroom. => Normally a group would wipe on orange/red pull 4-8+++++, but with full mana pool used to shrooms, and 4 dps taunting and overnuking vs the mobs on healers,... well it will be over fast =) (11 orange 2 red pulled, and doing full mana pool to shrooms worked out well for us (many many times)).
- Have your shroom forest spot in a spot where other groups do not stray with their additive mobs ( ie. Dungeons where fail groups pull the whole mountain on you ).
- Remember to sit in between pulls, and tell puller to chill 5 seconds when the last mob dies and then repull. (remind the group that shrooms are on 2min lifespan).

-This group can pull up to red, but i would not pull too many reds (2 max imo in one pull if group is armored, 1 if soft), red mobs can be tricky, so it would be good to have one dps in group that has 1 level more then the rest of the group. So the red can be actually killed semi fast and healers have mana on 2nd and 3rd pull.

!All 3 pulls CAN be done 1 by 1, and 5 second wait in between (ani sitting) to gain some mana to cast even more shrooms. Its microing but it makes those pulls go very fast. 3 pulls need/can be done until Ani is dry and after you wait until Ani is topped off in mana again and you redo.

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Additive info

Both groups have been tested in dungeons(Muire Tomb & Spraggon Den) extensively and Parth farms were cleared conning red/purp. (altho like i said deep purple mobs need 1 dps in group to be 1-2 higher in level OR deep purple can be resetted by just running it off range of mob pull spot). o.. and if you do parth farm, have one healer with disease cure ready.

In Dungeons, root vs pet will reset pet aggro and then its monty python time. Problem with Enchanter groups are, they tend to pull a lot of mobs, and when the "unexpected" happens and pet dies, its a very fast wipe.

Investment to cloth armor as caster is not pointless, if all cloth users have semi ok cloth on em, its not a problem to get a hit or two when DPSing like a mad man or lady <3



I hope this helps someone, my 2c for ya all , lub ya ! <3

/Bloodlance

Provided by Aruan , props

Small man Setup 1-3 SingleDD
1 Tank
1 Heal/Hybrid (can be bard, drui,warden,menta, everything with a bit of healing)
1 DD (can be single dd even Ranger or NS)

Do not underestimate a powerfull trio/Duo Setup; you will be much faster than levelling alone and it has the potential to evolve.
You will be able to kill Red´s in a decent time. If you got more than 1 Mob attacking, just focus your damage on the weakest mob first so you minimize the damage done to the Tank.

Small man Setup 1-3 AE DD
1 Tank
1 Heal/Hybrid (can be bard, drui,warden,menta, everything with a bit of healing)
1 AE DD

A Tank should be able to hold up to 3 mobs alone (medium shields can block 3 and big up to 5 enemies the same time.) if you got a healer to back you up. The Tank has to spread his Taunts on all mobs evently so they wont attack the AEDD.
The AE-DD should wait for the Tank´s to taunt the mobs at least 2-3 times before start applying Damage.
This Setup is easily scaleable with a second Tank and more DD´s or heals.

The Full 8 Man Setup
2-3 Tanks (depending on wether you got full tanks with shield or assist tank´s/rangers/ns)
1 Bard (if you got enough ae dd and good tanks, you can even be fine without one)
0-1 Menta (you can use bard for Manareg aswell)
1-2 Druis
2-4 AEDD´s

[TIP 1] With more Tank´s you got to coordinate wich mob to taunt so the incoming Damage get´s divided on the Tanks evenly. That will make healing a lot easier for the Support and give you a bit of Air if something goes wrong.

[TIP 2] Usually at the start of a lvling session you would determine wich Tank takes wich mob like:
First Tank (should be Tank with Shield) takes mob number 1&4
Second Tank - Mob number 2&5
Third Tank (should be the Off/Assist-Tank) - Mob Number 3

Casters should TRY to keep their power above 50%, because there is a penalty below 50% for regenerating your power. Also a note on animists is to only spec into creeping as far as the shrooms you plan to use, then go full arb and get a 9 focus creeping vendor staff because that level shroom is the best/most efficient and you will spam it until 50 (maybe use level 5 shroom until 20ish). The spec line into creeping helps with power consumption of the shroom you are using, since they are baseline you aren't speccing into creeping for anything else except to reduce power on baseline shrooms (the executioner is nice, but won't be highly useful later since you SHOULD go full arb). Final spec 49 arb/21creep/7verd is imo one of the strongest specs. Otherwise you could go 50 arb/19creep/7verd and have the best aoe bomber, but not best power consumption on level 21 shroom.

I don't think you ever tried this in practice. Focus groups usually pull deep purple mobs. When the pet doesn't get the aggro, it hits the mobs until it has aggro. If a tank hits the add with a tauntstyle, the enchpet will most likely never get the aggro back. Hence no dmg shield damage, meaning that a huge portion of the damage gets lost. Since Loot doesn't drop, the tanks get 4 shotted by the purple mob that is now hitting them. healers run oom and wipe. What they can do get aggro and reset the mob but I am not sure that is worth the spot, especially not 2.

not to say that you can't invite tanks for pity spots, but it's not really worth it.

Shadowgurke wrote:I don't think you ever tried this in practice. Focus groups usually pull deep purple mobs. When the pet doesn't get the aggro, it hits the mobs until it has aggro. If a tank hits the add with a tauntstyle, the enchpet will most likely never get the aggro back. Hence no dmg shield damage, meaning that a huge portion of the damage gets lost. Since Loot doesn't drop, the tanks get 4 shotted by the purple mob that is now hitting them. healers run oom and wipe. What they can do get aggro and reset the mob but I am not sure that is worth the spot, especially not 2.

not to say that you can't invite tanks for pity spots, but it's not really worth it.

You clearly didnt read my post.

And ive played many Enchanters to 50 focus pulling is clear as crystal to me.

I did give specific information in the details.

For focus pull you always need a spec Buffer aka druid. More buff means more pet absorb. With just Bases its a pain in the ass.

You also want to pull Mobs acording to your grp setup. You have 2 or more bombs? Go for 3-5 deep purple. You have lowbies in grp? Go for loke 15-20 yellow ora mobs. The lowbies will get cap XP and catch up faster.

Never played casters during live because gear was easier to come by, but since playing a melee fresh is pretty masochistic I rolled a Mana Chanter for farming. I'm wondering when the pet gets beefier? Do my stats help boost him up? Or is the only way to make him stronger full Druid buffs? I'm level 20 and when I solo I can send in my pet, Friend/Ally/Compatriot doesn't seem to matter, against a red and typically the red will kill itself and my pet at the same time. So lately if I'm solo I just let that happen and re-summon/reset.

And it seems farm more efficient to run a group with 4 Animists spamming the low level shrooms since there is no shroom cap here yet. We had a Rounders group yesterday go from 16-20 really fast and the comp was:

Ani/Ani/Ani/Ani/Chanter/Ment/Druid/Druid

I honestly felt useless as a chanter, if we got too many spawns I would start spreading stuns for something to do lol. We slowly moved into the rounder camp (by ELD parth farm) and just setup shop right in the center so any time something spawned it got burst down by 20+ shrooms.

Shadowgurke wrote:I don't think you ever tried this in practice. Focus groups usually pull deep purple mobs. When the pet doesn't get the aggro, it hits the mobs until it has aggro. If a tank hits the add with a tauntstyle, the enchpet will most likely never get the aggro back. Hence no dmg shield damage, meaning that a huge portion of the damage gets lost. Since Loot doesn't drop, the tanks get 4 shotted by the purple mob that is now hitting them. healers run oom and wipe. What they can do get aggro and reset the mob but I am not sure that is worth the spot, especially not 2.

not to say that you can't invite tanks for pity spots, but it's not really worth it.

There always needs to be tanks in group. not only to guard the bombers and provide peels incase ****** goes down but we also need tanks at max lvl for rvr and we need a ton of them. This idea that any tank in a focus pull group is a "pity spot" really needs to stop being a thing here in hib. One of the main reasons why hib becomes the underdog constantly, imo.

As a Hero I can tell you, it's not easy to be tank in this exp phase.
I can play quiet much but the only time I exp is with my guild.
The few times I was looking for it I dont get any answer or "we prefer stay like that".
Not necessary to quote me and say : "look me, I have no problem" or even "why dont you make your own grp"... blabla..
I dont say it's impossible I say it's much more difficult than healer/caster.
90% exp group are enchant pet/menta/druid + some others heal and aoe/pbae damage... if people are nice they take 1 tank, they did their good action of the day.
Do I blame them ? Certainly not, I find myself quiet useless in these groups to take 1 slot, even if in dungeon it can bit discut.
I will finish my character in pain, I hope it will be other way round later, too much casters and not enough tank for HL activities (revenge !).

Partly of the reason i posted this, is the problem that when we get our 50s rolling, we get our melee rolling 50s like a week or two after, or in the worst case the grind is so mind numbing that they reroll or stop playing.

Everyone can run their groups as they see fit, but we should always think about the whole of Hib, not just 1 group of it.

just my opinion.

Love you all <3

I agree to one point : having tanks in a pp grp is not pity slot, i considere them as safety either, in case something goes wrong, and to deal with adds (noticed mobs won't always go on the pet even if nobody heals and we're far from them ? it's not live-like...) but also to assist the pet (yes it's possible ! i know a BM which never stoles the aggro from the pet and deals damage while pp - /hug Vend -). BUT... even if for my part i invite people regardless of the classes when all "must" chars are already there (a second aoe, a druid, a menta) included stealther classes, because i think first as "hib" (everybody has a chance to exp decently and will be useful for the realm) i must say that i encounter as an ench, the exact inverse situation these last days. I'm not pp-fanatic, and willing to play bomber in any tank grp, but i noticed that when i invite tanks in the grp they tend to take over too often, critic every action (pull more/quicklier, focus was not on, etc are their favorites ^^) and end pulling single mobs in each direction regardless of the mana from healers/casters. I think that both caster/melee classes should think about, and simply try to adapt to the situation even if it means changing their usual way to do things. Now, for the record, today i was searching 2 hours long people to play with me, and when i finally got a hero and a druid, they left after 2 pulls to join a "tank" grp that had just entered the dungeon and which didn't wanted ench/pp. As u see, there are not only problems for tanks, and elitists are also present in the melee "camp".

Wanted to bump this Thread, maybe we could make it a sticky for future Players to look at;

I wanted to contribute with some working Tank setup´s as i´ve seen Ppl who never done a Tank Setup before:

First Thing, if your a Tank you have much better chance at building a group yourselfs then waiting for someone to invite you...

Small man Setup 1-3 SingleDD:

1 Tank
1 Heal/Hybrid (can be bard, drui,warden,menta, everything with a bit of healing)
1 DD (can be single dd even Ranger or NS)

dont underestimate a powerfull trio/Duo Setup; youll be much faster than lvling alone and it has the potencial to evolve.
You will be able to kill Red´s in a decent time. If you got more than 1 Mob attacking, just focus your damage on the weakeast mob first so you minimze the damage done to the Tank.

Small man Setup 1-3 AE DD:

1 Tank
1 Heal/Hybrid (can be bard, drui,warden,menta, everything with a bit of healing)
1 AE DD

A Tank should be able to hold up to 3 mobs alone (medium shields can block 3 and big up to 5 enemies the same time.) if you got a healer to back you up. The Tank has to spread his Taunts on all mobs evently so they wont attack the AEDD.
The AE-DD should wait for the Tank´s to taunt the mobs at least 2-3 times before start applying Damage.
This Setup is easily scaleable with a second Tank and more DD´s or heals.

The Full 8 Man Setup:

2-3 Tanks (depending on wether you got full tanks with shield or assist tank´s/rangers/ns)
1 Bard (if you got enough ae dd and good tanks, you can even be fine without one)
0-1 Menta (you can use bard for Manareg aswell)
1-2 Druis
2-4 AEDD´s

With more Tank´s you got to coordinate wich mob to taunt so the incoming Damage get´s divided on the Tanks evenly. That will make healing a lot easier for the Support and give you a bit of Air if something goes wrong.
Usually at the start of a lvling session you would determine wich Tank takes wich mob like:

First Tank (should be Tank with Shield) takes mob number 1&4
Second Tank - Mob number 2&5
Third Tank (should be the Off/Assist-Tank) - Mob Number 3

If you got questions about thoose setups im happy to answer them.

Let´s get thoose Tank´s group back, and remember ppl;
Making Friends is the best way to get some Supporters to join your Group instead of the Focus Pet Pull one.

There has been even some Fin groups with 3 tanks 2 healers 1 menta 2 AoErs, and it has worked better then an average Encha group.

ofc it needs well geared tanks, but even so, it works. (also cant be too low level).

Bloodlance, would you mind adding my setups to the first Post?We should keep it organized and maybe get a stickie ?

this needs to stay at the top, we need more tank groups !