Hi there,

I've just started playing Uthgard and I want to play a tank amongst our friends (Mentalist, Warden, Enchanter, Bard, Ranger). I was initially going to roll a Firbolg Hero (50 CS/42 Shield/39 WS) but decided that their pure melee nature might be a bit too boring for me. The "Anti-Paladin" theme of the Champion sounds interesting (debuffing the enemy, instead of buffing allies) and overall the class concept looks similar to Midgard's Thane, which was the only class I got to 50 pre-Cata on LIVE.

So, I'm thinking about going Champion. Even though it's only a "hybrid" tank, lacks Determination (I say this like I know what I'm talking about - I don't, please go easy on the acronyms) and can only wear up to Medium Shields.

I'm playing Hib as this is where my friends have decided to play - it's my last choice, personally, but as I'm not a fan of Elves/Lurikeens my Champion will be a Celt.

I always like to invest in the skill line that makes a class unique, so I'm thinking 50 Valor, 42 Shield, and 39 Weapon Skill - but I don't know what Weapon Skill to have? Someone mentioned that Mid/Alb have good Slash resistences so swords should be out, and in terms of pure cosmetics (no idea about skill lines/abilities), I'd prefer crushing to piercing. I understand that Slash/Crush is 100% STR based whereas Pierce is 50/50 STR/DEX. As the Celt has 60 in all stats it seems like much of a muchness to me?

Lastly, I don't know how to distribute my attribute/stat points. I'd be thinking +10 STR for DMG if going Crushing, +10 CON because I want to tank, but then do I invest in DEX, QUI, INT or a combination of 2-3 of them? Or have I got this all wrong entirely?

In a nutshell, these are my questions:

• 1.) Is a 50 V/42 Sh/39 WS Celt Champion going to make a viable PvE & PvP tank for non-competitive play? Or am I best going for Firbolg Hero instead?
  
• 2.) Which Weapon Skill should I use?
  
• 3.) How should I allocate my starting attributes?

Thanks!

Heskey wrote:am I best going for Firbolg Hero instead?

Hey, you can't be wrong with a Hero ! Champion is more risky... (Champ = 1,5% of the total hib pop)

Heskey wrote:

• 1.) Is a 50 V/42 Sh/39 WS Celt Champion going to make a viable PvE & PvP tank for non-competitive play? Or am I best going for Firbolg Hero instead?

Well, all classes and spec are fine for non-competitive play. But yes, Hero would be much better (safer).

Basically, Champion is only good in 1vs1 and small groups, where its debuffs can actually have an impact. Compared to a pure tank, it brings a few ranged interrupts, but that's about it, everything else it does is worse. Not only that but Champion (and Reaver) suffers the most from the lack of Determination, a rooted Champion is like dead for ~40 seconds, whereas Valewalker and Thane can still uses their respective castable DD. It is also a very poor Guard bot for this same reason.

The class is just poorly designed, there's a reason why it's the less played one on Uthguard. If you really want to play it, that's fine, you can still kill stuff and protect people, but it's suboptimal in almost any situation, you just have to be aware of that. If you love solo / duo / trio, you should be fine.

This is coming from someone who pretty much only plays Hybrid classes.

Heskey wrote:

• 3.) How should I allocate my starting attributes?

10 Str 10 Qui 10 Int for group play. But you'll hear a lot of different opinion about that one.

Dex is close to useless in groups if you don't go Piercing. The block chance increase is ridiculously low (about 0.5%). If you often play solo it might be nice since it also increases Parry, Evade and your shield's Weaponskill.

Same thing with Con. The ~35 HP difference doesn't help at all during group fights, you're not a priority target, no point in requiring one more hit to get killed (at best) if your group is dead. Solo, it's nice to have.

DPS wise, 10 Str 10 Qui is in most cases better than 15 Str.

Int increase your front load damage by quite a nice amount and 10 points in it is probably better than 5 more points in Str, but this is arguable.

Thanks for that comprehensive reply bm01 - do you have any view on whether 39 weapon skill should be Slash or Crush?

Heskey wrote:Thanks for that comprehensive reply bm01 - do you have any view on whether 39 weapon skill should be Slash or Crush?

Resist wise, both are a little crappy, Blunt is bad against Alb and Blade is bad against Mid. http://darkageofcamelot.com/content/armor-resist-tables

Style wise, it's similar. Blunt has a side dehaste followed by snare, Blade has a side snare followed by a dehaste (which is in my opinion better, snare is more important). Anytimes are similar, back styles also. Blunt has a nice after parry style (30% dehaste).

I'd probably go with Blunt because of that after parry style, Blade in group for that side snare.

Maybe I missed something so wait for another opinion :p I actually never played 1 handed Champion.

I like elves and was looking at this spec point split for pierce. I have less experience tanking than OP, undoubtedly, but i wondered if this would be a killer assist chain leader. Can debuff to 1000 range even if rooted/snared, while my mates blast the enemy into the ground. It would suck for realm points, but from a role-play perspective (The other meaning of RP, speaking of acronyms) it is awesome.

As an RvR noob, i wonder how much debuffing is used given the high cost of blowing purge here.

Are there any self-proclaimed masters of the art that can contribute their thoughts with relevance to the Champion (or not)?

I see interesting differences between realms/classes in terms of debuff duration. From caster resist debuffs at 8s or 15s (except the Spiritmaster with 30s Bod/Spir/Ener debuffs) all the way up to Enchanter attack spd aoe debuffs lasting 120s.

From a purely theoretical standpoint, the addition of an appropriate debuffer would be much more effective than simply adding one dps member to a group, yet PUG's are always looking for predictability, not skill at wielding the design of a particular class. Of course they like that too, but aren't often going to appreciate. As an animist who learned not to float bubbles out to mates too close to a 'chanter pet in DF, i consider myself under-utilized as a bubbler. Once i was aknowledged for it, and felt like i was pulling my weight. This makes playing fun, when a lvl 10 or 30 player can contribute to a group of endgame players boss farming for a drop in PvE.

Personally i'd like to see a light chanter/valor champ + warden duo up against a full grp of Mid tanks... but that's where paper DAoC is fun. I don't have to live with all the times that duo would meet a sorcerer+anyclass. It's a good game, eh?