Njor wrote:

Nemi wrote:...

As we all know, that other server was fairly short lived because the staff gave in to player demands ...

cheers

I disagree here. Which "demands" are you even referencing ?
I was there for most of genesis too.

Issues were staff corruption and large technical dfficulties. QOL never came into it.

Uthgard 1 Successful by which metrics ?
As far as I can gather most of that life span was as a niche 8v8 server.

The objective here was to revive the old days where 8v8 was the niche and large battles the norm.

You wont achieve that for long without better retention strategies.

Njor wrote:

Nemi wrote:...

I was not here for Uthgard 1.0 but often hear they went with a similar approach and it did not serve well.

From my point of view the gamble is not worth the risk. If you are correct, the server loses people for the sake of being true to 1.65 in 2017 for the sake of... I honestly cannot tell you what for actually.

At worst it will slowly drive people away and alienate new players ( yes there are new daoc players).

You heard wrong.
Uthgard 1.0 was by far the most successfull freeshard for 10 years. Player numbers degraded slowly over time, non-standard changes were put in and taken out down the road which affected new players.
When that other server came out and people flocked over there because it promised a lot of "QoL" Uthgard staff took the opportunity to thouroughly rework the server to what it is now.
As we all know, that other server was fairly short lived because the code was bad and staff gave in to player demands ... if Uth 1.0 would have been still up after these problems on that other server became clear people would have just gone back.

cheers

This is so much spin I got dizzy reading it.

If Uthgard had listened to its players there never would have been a genesis, nor an uthgard 2. Which, overall, wasn't a bad thing that those events occured. But the real question is, do we learn from history or repeat it?

relvinian wrote:

Njor wrote:

Nemi wrote:...

I was not here for Uthgard 1.0 but often hear they went with a similar approach and it did not serve well.

From my point of view the gamble is not worth the risk. If you are correct, the server loses people for the sake of being true to 1.65 in 2017 for the sake of... I honestly cannot tell you what for actually.

At worst it will slowly drive people away and alienate new players ( yes there are new daoc players).

You heard wrong.
Uthgard 1.0 was by far the most successfull freeshard for 10 years. Player numbers degraded slowly over time, non-standard changes were put in and taken out down the road which affected new players.
When that other server came out and people flocked over there because it promised a lot of "QoL" Uthgard staff took the opportunity to thouroughly rework the server to what it is now.
As we all know, that other server was fairly short lived because the code was bad and staff gave in to player demands ... if Uth 1.0 would have been still up after these problems on that other server became clear people would have just gone back.

cheers

This is so much spin I got dizzy reading it.

If Uthgard had listened to its players there never would have been a genesis, nor an uthgard 2. Which, overall, wasn't a bad thing that those events occured. But the real question is, do we learn from history or repeat it?

IMO, very few of us learn the right lessons from history. What have you learned about the value of complaining about the same 'issues' year after year?

make frontier exp at least 2x that of non-frontier exp, watch the server thrive instead of shrink.

Wraith wrote:make frontier exp at least 2x that of non-frontier exp, watch the server thrive instead of shrink.

While that might be fun at first, the truth is that the entire system could use a re-work.

They should boost experienced across the board (probably 2x), and then give a bonus (maybe 15-25%) for frontier zones.

However, it's anyone's guess if this will bring players back. However, no changes, I firmly believe, will lead to another dead Uthgard. I had hoped that the GMs were fully aware of this, and OK with it, however, based on Trishin's comments I'm thinking that maybe they perceive the over 50% quit rate as a normal function of releasing a server, instead of a reflection on the lack of QoL.

Edit: To expand on my second paragraph, it isn't that the ideas are questionable, it's questionable whether people give servers second chances. I stand by the ideas and believe most of the current (and certainly the departed) player base would appreciate the changes.

Gil, Myth had everything to do with Genesis server. What have you learned from history?

relvinian wrote:Gil, Myth had everything to do with Genesis server. What have you learned from history?

I've learned to stay away from an understaffed, inexperienced free shard.

Im in the old guy category.^^

I have a job, 2 kids and i used to love to play daoc.
I have a lvl 43, 27 and several low levels in their teens.
It was good fun while it lasted, and ive really enjoyed the music, zones and nostalgia.

That said, i just dont have the time or heart to do the 40-50 grind anymore.
I think i calculated it to be like 80 hours+. But i suspect it's even more..
I want to rvr, not grind. Sorry...thats just not any fun.

What "i" would have liked, is to able to really explore the classes and the game.
In this grind state its impossible. Seriously..

And no, you cant have my stuff.

Have fun kids. And remember its a game.

Andromeda awaits?

Grimgorn wrote:
Andromeda awaits?

Same here. I will do a break.

Cave_Sham wrote:

Wraith wrote:make frontier exp at least 2x that of non-frontier exp, watch the server thrive instead of shrink.

that will just make 8 mans roll exp spots 50 thousand times a day , that wont help anything

all exp needs to be doubled or more.

Ok? So you mean Pvp will happen? All you need to do is make the frontier experience ENOUGH that eventually the risk reward ratio is enough where the risk matches the reward. Maybe thats 2 x the experience...maybe its 3x etc.

The key thing here is that PEOPLE ARE OUT IN RVR.

If 8 mans start roaming EXP spots. counter 8 mans will start roaming. If lowbies are out leveling, that gives stealthers a chance to actually kill something besides the crafter running to the keep. It also allows small mans to roam and kill some levelers.

The levelers might be frustrated but thats why its important the experience they gain imbetween those ganks makes up for it. The frontiers are quite large and I promise you can find some hidden spots.

We need to ENCOURAGE people to be out in RvR or this will become a stale 8v8 arena server. We need to push for an ecosystem of PvP, and stop trying to worry about "omg they will get rolled" carebear hand holding when it comes to world pvp.

Laje wrote:Ok? So you mean Pvp will happen?

The key thing here is that PEOPLE ARE OUT IN RVR.

Ganking XPers is barely PvP--technically yes, but not in spirit. The XPers are at such a gross disadvantage that they'd only serve as bait--hardly an uplifting experience to them.

I think there are better systems, such as rewarding keep takes, that could be used to encourage an ecosystem of RvR--something we both agree should be established. Meanwhile experience should probably be boosted across the board, as this would benefit all play-styles.

Isavyr wrote:

Laje wrote:Ok? So you mean Pvp will happen?

The key thing here is that PEOPLE ARE OUT IN RVR.

Ganking XPers is barely PvP--technically yes, but not in spirit. The XPers are at such a gross disadvantage that they'd only serve as bait--hardly an uplifting experience to them.

I think there are better systems, such as rewarding keep takes, that could be used to encourage an ecosystem of RvR--something we both agree should be established. Meanwhile experience should probably be boosted across the board, as this would benefit all play-styles.

We do both agree on keep takes giving a reward.

However, the point i am making is sure they(greys/levelers) are somewhat fodder, But they get increased EXP. Its not about always having a fair fight. This carebear mentality that you should never be ganked or griefed is what has ruined so many pvp games these days. If you don't want to worry about getting ganked go back to lyn barfog or pygmies (or your equivalent) that wont change. But there should always be a reward for danger that makes it worth it. Thats just basic game design.

They are getting something for their frustration and in turn feeding the bigger fish ...who feeds the bigger fish... etc. It gives something OTHER than 8 mans targets to fight.Which encourages more stealth and solo/small man classes. I can tell you as a stealther this game is abysmal for RvR.Its run to uppland and wait for crafters. Its going to continue being an 8v8 server unless other people BESIDES templated lvl 50s go out into RvR. Keep takes will be great for ZvZ. I am just trying to think of a solution that accomplishes 3 goals.

1.increase diversity of fights in RvR.8v8,zvz,small man,solo
2.DECREASES leveling time for everyone willing to adventure out
3. Is an easy manipulation of variables to be implemented in the game with minimal effort for maximal reward

Like I said at some point experience gained > frustration from dying.

I do think you would have to make it RvR wide and not have it increased in dungeons to keep monopolies from forming.

And as I have said in other posts, this has the added benefit of increasing people out in RvR on non prime times since they think they can sneak in better exp when no one is on. Which also INCREASES bodies out in RvR in non prime time. Which is also a great thing for us NA players

Spot on. It's not about ganking levellers for rps. It's about incentives to be in rvr zones.


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I get the risk vs. reward argument but I doubt there would be a big enough xp amount that would make people want to stay in rvr xping. This coming from someone who loves going out to frontier xp camps.

I think most folks would rather just lvl for their full play time rather than split their playtime between lvling for 10-20 mins, fighting an unwinnable fight (sometimes) and then running back/reforming group . I mean, some folks can't stand dieing. Whether RvR or otherwise. (Don't ask me why they play this game) When your xping, even with amazing xp, gets constantly interrupted and you have no chance of winning the engagement, people will either just log or change camps to something that is safer.


It's a nice idea but in practice, at least in daoc, I'm not sure it would work.