I've always been a fan of 6 sec PBT ever since the original classic days, but I'm really starting to 2nd guess its true value in Uth 2.0 8v8 (and even zerg). I am a supp RM, and what really got me wondering was when I randomly moused over PBT on the char builder page earlier and noticed that the range on it is only 1250. That's not very far.

For a Supp RM who's going to be hanging way in the backfield to NS enemies and maybe snare-nuke off support occasionally, is anyone even going to realistically receive the benefits of my 1250 range PBT? How do you Theurgs feel about this (i.e. you're standing way in the back casting pets too)??

What's the general consensus these days on red PBT in RvR?

sup rm is fail, coz the pbt is a hard counter for all skalds who only carry a 2h

Skarz wrote:sup rm is fail, coz the pbt is a hard counter for all skalds who only carry a 2h

This makes absolutely no sense...

Ya pbt sux all runies should stop using it

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Skarz wrote:sup rm is fail, coz the pbt is a hard counter for all skalds who only carry a 2h

wat

Does anyone have anything that's actually useful to contribute to this thread? I'd really love to have an educational discussion here

it depends on your group comp (and skill) and the enemy group comp (and skill).

heres a for instance: i have a warden 6 sec PBT, and typically, in hib, wardens are run in tank groups. i had a few fights a couple days ago where i felt absolutely useless in this setup: Bard, Druid, Druid, Warden, Bm, Bm, Hero, Hero. we fought a few mid tank groups. heres why i felt useless (and why PBT wasnt much help in this case): on inc both groups hit each other, our group spread out a bit, but the mid group immediately jumped on the first tank that ran into their group. celerity and disease go up, perma bubble and first PBT tick get popped quick and i get maybe 1 heal off on a diseased tank who drops basically in 1 round. the trend carries on.

PBT is much less effective against semi-organized groups that assist on the same targets well, especially if the damage is coming from a dual wield class. bubble just doesnt tick often enough to be a real damage blocker in those cases (you can be dead before the second tick). HOWEVER, if the enemy tanks split (whether its because youre a caster group or they arent assisting well or if you are able to CC some on inc) PBT will absolutely rock their world. PBT is most effective when the incoming damage is spread out, if it is stacked all on 1 target it will be like theres no PBT at all.

Great for small man, but poop for 8's as the train won't even know you had it on


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The problem is that you're playing in a melee oriented realm where most of the RvR groups will be push groups, so even your healers could get out of range. Tanks don't really need your bubble and they will in most all cases be beyond its range because you definitely won't want to be pushing in with them. The bubble is more helpful and noticeable if you play in a caster kite group, more so against 2H tanks. Definitely doable in Mid, but pretty rare to see.

Also, 6s pbt is too heavy on power use so I prefer to run yellow or blue instead (with a tri-spec) for 8v8. You also get much more utility and dps out of this type of spec. If you're mostly doing keep takes/defense/zerg fights then I guess 6s pbt is alright. 6s isn't even really needed in pve because you can just spam cast your lowest one on whoever has aggro.

Skarz wrote:sup rm is fail, coz the pbt is a hard counter for all skalds who only carry a 2h

WUT

It is my experience too that unorganized pugs with few dual wield tanks can have real problems with red pbt running in the enemy grp. In situations other than that, I don't think pbt is too awesome. I think people are being trained from levelling to love red pbt. There it is just great in most setups. ( except matter cabby focus pull)

It also helps against caster grps as a tank grp since the def tank has alot harder timr controlling/snaring the enemy.

Drastix wrote:Does anyone have anything that's actually useful to contribute to this thread? I'd really love to have an educational discussion here

I saw this thread yesterday and thought about replying but declined. Since you seem sincere I'll help.

PBT is misunderstood. Bladeturn is extremely useful in this ruleset, but not specifically the pulsing aspect of it.

I would argue that the castable group static bubble available from PBT classes is more useful than the pulse in most cases.

On this ruleset of 30 minute RAs, your INC has a magnified effect on the ability to leverage small advantages to snowball into a victory.

Example:

Your tanks have static bubble, the other group does not.

Your slam tanks should be able to slam/snare the other teams tanks on inc, and allow your group to push/pull depending on what you need to do, effectively turning the fight into ~6vs8 at the start.

This is also why a warden excels in a hib tanker. Bladeturn in this setup should be leveraged to get/maintain control over the other groups melee, while yours is free'd up.

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The other realms/setups it's less important. Supp runie is an NS bot but adds the utility of static bubble to the group.

I'd rather have a dark RM, or 3rd healer in that slot for the standard mid group.

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Overall, the biggest problem is that people don't know how to leverage bladeturn.

Anecdotally, since I've been playing warrior here, none of the hib tank groups play correctly. They let me run wild and destroy all their tanks. I often never even get stunned. Having a warden in those groups doesn't matter since they aren't using it to keep their tanks free.

A few of the alb groups seem to have an idea. They'd dedicate 1 slam tank to me, and one slam tank to Raunz on inc. Depending on purges/bladeturn/luck etc, fights could be decided by who got a slam off first.

Top wrote:
I saw this thread yesterday and thought about replying but declined. Since you seem sincere I'll help.

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Excellent post - thank you very much for your insight. What you've said makes perfect sense.