Keith Johnson wrote:I gotta say playing with new players who have never played DAoC, they all think groups running by and not hitting a fight in progress, or the disengaging when a fight gets hit is the lamest thing ever.

Those of us who played before think nothing of it as it became standard practice long ago for many, but from an outsider's perspective it is incredibly stupid lol.


But as far as the zerg thing goes I do truly believe that we're in a situation where many people would JOIN a zerg if there was one out and about, but nobody wants to actually form one. I know that's what happens with my group seeing as were all rr2 still and badly need RPs for the basics, but when we don't see any we just shrug and try to manage with our 8.

Absolutely - I completely agree & furthermore understand why new players / casuals / even some old school folks think that kind of play is super lame. It's still the group(s) choice on what they're doing. Just more reasons that hopefully a few people will be motivated to get some realm action going. What happened to people like Hector on Alb? We need those type of players here

Trickfinger wrote:

Muggsi wrote:Red = dead.

If you want organized team fights with nobody interrupting, go play Arenas in WoW.

This is fine, but I will judge you behind your back to be a bad player.

This is fine, and I will care absolutely zero. I don't play so someone I don't know and will never know thinks I am a "good" player. I play to have fun.

I can guarantee that if/when I lead a zerg the number of people ****** about it is going to go nuclear.

Which is half the fun I suppose...

Keith Johnson wrote:I gotta say playing with new players who have never played DAoC, they all think groups running by and not hitting a fight in progress, or the disengaging when a fight gets hit is the lamest thing ever.

Those of us who played before think nothing of it as it became standard practice long ago for many, but from an outsider's perspective it is incredibly stupid lol.


But as far as the zerg thing goes I do truly believe that we're in a situation where many people would JOIN a zerg if there was one out and about, but nobody wants to actually form one. I know that's what happens with my group seeing as were all rr2 still and badly need RPs for the basics, but when we don't see any we just shrug and try to manage with our 8.

I don't remember seeing that type of behavior until long after the live game started declining to the point of only being one server. In fact, I kinda feel like the one server thing is part of why the mentality of not adding came about, as many people had toons on each realm and so actually were on the same team as their enemies at times. But in OF and the early days of NF? Maybe it's just the servers I played on, but I don't recall anyone skipping by fights out of "respect". The "don't add" whining really only came from solos. That's my experience anyway, as an "outsider" I suppose as far as elite 8-mans go, but not ignorant of what the game was like.

I'm glad you and other 8-man players appreciate the existence of zergs, though. That's relieving, because I think many of your peers are of the opposite view.

I dont get why I didn't see a single person in broad chat or yelling in DL so far with things like
"ZERG BG at me! /BG join xy"

There are so many people who who not want to run as a full group... Well just get the amount of people you want to go out into the frontier and start the zerg. Why didn't someone do that so far?
I for myself prefer doing anything else but zerging. The few 8v8 I had with my friends made my heart pump way harder than ANY zerg I experienced ever in daoc but if someone just feels the other way around:
just start a zerg! Many players appear to feel the same and will join.

Sendnudez wrote:

Keith Johnson wrote:I gotta say playing with new players who have never played DAoC, they all think groups running by and not hitting a fight in progress, or the disengaging when a fight gets hit is the lamest thing ever.

Those of us who played before think nothing of it as it became standard practice long ago for many, but from an outsider's perspective it is incredibly stupid lol.


But as far as the zerg thing goes I do truly believe that we're in a situation where many people would JOIN a zerg if there was one out and about, but nobody wants to actually form one. I know that's what happens with my group seeing as were all rr2 still and badly need RPs for the basics, but when we don't see any we just shrug and try to manage with our 8.

Absolutely - I completely agree & furthermore understand why new players / casuals / even some old school folks think that kind of play is super lame. It's still the group(s) choice on what they're doing. Just more reasons that hopefully a few people will be motivated to get some realm action going. What happened to people like Hector on Alb? We need those type of players here

I'm always down for forming zergs, the problem is that there is such a small incentive for me to do so. Keeps aren't worth rps, players have a hard time following directions, and there isn't cross realm kill spam so we can't see where the action is. If I form a zerg to go bash every group I see for 50-80rp per kill, what is the point?

We left Alb a while ago to try hib and mid because it was like pulling teeth to get Albs to RvR in my zergs. But seeing all this talk makes me wanna come back and take our relics back. No offense to any other albs but since we left I havent seen anybody effectively lead anything lol

Our (german) Midgard alliance is actually trying to form an organized zerg on some nights (mostly weekends). Lots of alb and hib 8mans already had the favor of getting rolled in OG by our 2-2.5 groups.
Mind you, these groups are far from kitted out. Lots of people without SCed equipment and even some of them below 50. Sometimes with only one healer and no shamy. But still, everyone has a chance to participate.
Unfortunately, we haven't encountered much counter-zerging, though, except if two or three fgs accidently ran into us together, which were the most intense fights, of course.

So please, feel encouraged to form your own zergs, fellow Albs and Hibs. The more, the merrier, right?

joshisanonymous wrote:I don't remember seeing that type of behavior until long after the live game started declining to the point of only being one server. In fact, I kinda feel like the one server thing is part of why the mentality of not adding came about, as many people had toons on each realm and so actually were on the same team as their enemies at times. But in OF and the early days of NF? Maybe it's just the servers I played on, but I don't recall anyone skipping by fights out of "respect". The "don't add" whining really only came from solos. That's my experience anyway, as an "outsider" I suppose as far as elite 8-mans go, but not ignorant of what the game was like.

I'm glad you and other 8-man players appreciate the existence of zergs, though. That's relieving, because I think many of your peers are of the opposite view.

This has been my experience as well. 8 mans/elitists have existed since very early on, and like all games, DAoC had elitist cool dudes too cool for school (like Trickfinger above), but it was the VAST minority of players on my server. This includes going into the 3rd year of the game, even the 4th year. There just wasn't very many 8 mans. Maybe a handful on all realms, the vast minority.

I suspect my old servers were so fun because of this. There wasn't much of the 8 man mentality at all anywhere on those servers. There certainly was plenty of ****** talking though. Plenty of QQing. Plenty of what makes the game truly fun. Big bad ass skirmishes and zergs, lots of fort attacking and defending. It helped that we had a premier zerg-minded guild that consistently organized and ran zergs. I remember their names well still to this day.

And yes, there was never any "skipping" fights out of "respect" type stuff on my old servers. You saw an enemy, you f'kin killed it. It was as simple as that. No mercy, no worrying about "reputation" with the enemy realms. Not sure why anyone would care about what an enemy realm thought of them unless they have characters on those realms too, like joshisanonymous said.

It's very easy to say "just form zergs". But when a vast majority of the regular RvRers on a server just want to run 8 mans in their own little bubbles, it makes it exceedingly difficult. I suggest the 8 man leaders do it themselves from time to time, if they care about the longevity of the server.

I have no problem to ask people to join for more than 1 fg if I see it fit (Our first group full, bad setup in the first grp, low levels, not all SC or just enemies already zerging or too strong. Whatever, there are a lot of reasons, and I don't even need one).

But it is not so easy to find people willing to join this kind of RvR. The usual answer I get is 3-4 tells like "you are so lame", "learn to play noob" etc., than something similar in the chat I asked, no matter if it is /as, /b or /y.
I don't care, this doesn't bother ME at all. But a lot of people get scared to join.
Often people ask me if this is serious and no hoax, or if they can join outside of svasud or on the road, if this will hurt their 8vs8 reputation or some silly stuff like that.
I mean how should I know if it hurts their reputation?
What reputation after all? The "you once played not according to our unwritten 8vs8 rules and are no longer part of this exclusive club" rule?
Back in the days as I was part of this club, I was told the first rule of 8vs8 club is: you do not talk about 8vs8 club... and I failed, again

Leading coordinated multiple group zergs is something different, it is exhausting and I really don't wan't to do that regularly. But I wish someone else would, I would join sometimes of course. For now I take the easy way and do just 8vs8 most of the time.

Flyguy wrote:I'm always down for forming zergs, the problem is that there is such a small incentive for me to do so. Keeps aren't worth rps, players have a hard time following directions, and there isn't cross realm kill spam so we can't see where the action is. If I form a zerg to go bash every group I see for 50-80rp per kill, what is the point?

We left Alb a while ago to try hib and mid because it was like pulling teeth to get Albs to RvR in my zergs. But seeing all this talk makes me wanna come back and take our relics back. No offense to any other albs but since we left I havent seen anybody effectively lead anything lol

Hey man, good to see you're still around! That seems to be the common frustrations with Alb. It's hard to fix bad / inattentive players, but at least some incentive for keep action would be a good start. A large amount of XP perhaps incentive players in their 40's to come fight?

8 man is basically the same comps fighting each other over and over again. Its no different than WoW arena where everyone plays the exact same classes and specs. Only difference is at least in WoW the next major patch might change up who is OP so at least there is potential for change. Here nothing will change....EVER. Next month no one is going to be running Champs or Friars or Thanes in their 8 mans. Same goes for 6 months out and 9 months out. Every single group will always have the same classes in them.

Sendnudez wrote:

Flyguy wrote:I'm always down for forming zergs, the problem is that there is such a small incentive for me to do so. Keeps aren't worth rps, players have a hard time following directions, and there isn't cross realm kill spam so we can't see where the action is. If I form a zerg to go bash every group I see for 50-80rp per kill, what is the point?

We left Alb a while ago to try hib and mid because it was like pulling teeth to get Albs to RvR in my zergs. But seeing all this talk makes me wanna come back and take our relics back. No offense to any other albs but since we left I havent seen anybody effectively lead anything lol

Hey man, good to see you're still around! That seems to be the common frustrations with Alb. It's hard to fix bad / inattentive players, but at least some incentive for keep action would be a good start. A large amount of XP perhaps incentive players in their 40's to come fight?

I'm actually trying to go back to alb now... just need to find a plat xfer from mid to alb

Okay, players and Uthgard staff. Let's be honest with ourselves. The only thing that really motivates the vast majority of players to participate in RvR is the Realm Points. Everyone wants their participation and effort to result in improvement to their character, even if in just some small way. Let's be honest. Most players are primarily interested in how their own characters benefit from their actions. Once again, in RvR this is reflected in Realm Points gained. Everything else is fluff.

Currently, 8 vs 8 RvR is the only means by which players can consistently gain Realm Points on a daily basis. If you 8 vs 8 & keep your win percentage around 50%, you know that your efforts for the day will be rewarded with a certain number of realm points. NO OTHER ACTIVITY on Uthgard consistently gives this reward, so 8 vs 8 will continue to be the vast majority of RvR on Uthgard.

No Realm Points for taking keeps, no realm points for killing Lord, No realm points for killing a certain number of keep guards, no kill the assassin tasks, no other RP-based tasks.

8 vs 8 is currently the ONLY WAY to consistently gain realm points and advance in realm ranks. This is why 90+% of current RvR is 8-man.

Kayd wrote: This is why 90+% of current RvR is 8-man.

No, it´s because it´s 2017

suck wrote:

Kayd wrote: This is why 90+% of current RvR is 8-man.

No, it´s because it´s 2017

It's 2017 and plenty of players on live still zerg around.

He is pretty spot on - the in game rewards for anything outside of 8v8 are dismal.

I can run a BAG and get about as many RPs all night as I would winning 1-2 8v8 fights.

1.65 is a terrible patch level for any diversity in this game. No det on hybrids, no rewards for keep takes, no rewards for keep defenses, etc.

Unless any of that changes, it's going to mostly stay within the confines of 8v8 and some occasional large group action.