You asked for my opinion, and there it was, based on your topic, the answers to your topic, and the tendency on every topic on this forum since the release. Sorry that it was too brutal for you. If you had a mezzer+a sham+another caster with a blue+ NS in your group, someone was not doing his job, and there is no need to nerf, change NS or counter NS abilities for that.

You asked for my opinion and my opinion is that when people are not doing their job, you ultimately can use purge. 1.65 is pretty much balanced regarding NS, even if people used to have more personal tools to deal with a lack of teamplay can feel frustrated about it.

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More details below:

Exercia Devoras wrote:It does feel like there is no natural counter to nearsight beside a 30min RA.

There is, it is called placement/positioning and interrupt.

Exercia Devoras wrote:Almost every sucessfull Hib/Alb group runs at least one caster with yellow/red nearsight.

Yes. And hib have a bard to rupt, and alb a minstrel, when mids run with a shaman.
And everybody has a mezzer with strengths and weaknesses.
Overall, it is all about what class to NS/rupt/CC from the beginning which will decide who has the upper hand. So it remains a players' issue, nothing about game abilities.

Exercia Devoras wrote:Im playing myself a darkcarver RM and my grey NS can not compete with it. DOnt get me wrong, this is not a crythread about how strong hib/alb castergroups are, because even if there would be a good way for midgard, to have a yellow/red nearsight(they do obviously not) i would rather have a way to counter it.

You play a spec without the ability to counter NS and you have to rely on your supp (or dark) RM and your sham to protect you, as well as on your positioning at the beginning of a fight. If you want to be the counter-NS guy, run supp RM, you will see, it is a lot of fun.

Exercia Devoras wrote:Im really interessted in your opinions on this, because i want myself to improve but right now im handling it with a /shrug.

My advice, change your spec, or change the people you play with.

ah NS is overrated, only hibs can build good grps with red NS. Pick a good minstrel or 2 and problem is solved anyway.

Your initial response definitely sounded dick-ish, Tohu, but I agree with you, I don't feel like there's a particular need to introduce an ability to directly counter NS as it's prevalent in all realms. I guess Albs and Hibs might have a slight advantage in that if they absolutely fail in the initial NS battle, Albs can SoS away until it wears off and Hibs can group purge, but otherwise, I can think of several tactics that I would try to use to overcome that situation as a Mid. But, I'm not an 8-man player, so take this for what it's worth.

Also, the one instance where I would probably enjoy grouping quite a bit is in a caster group that includes a darkcarver. If any Mids are intent on doing this, feel free to /invite me! I haz peels, interrupts, and cold damage.

My opinion is there is a very clear and apparent reason that cure nearsight was added in the very next patch after this

But what do I know, I think disease should have an immunity after it's cleared. And sorry, but "Don't get nearsighted" is not a counter to nearsight.

Keith Johnson wrote:My opinion is there is a very clear and apparent reason that cure nearsight was added in the very next patch after this

But what do I know, I think disease should have an immunity after it's cleared. And sorry, but "Don't get nearsighted" is not a counter to nearsight.

disease is the only thing mids have going for them this patch.

i don't get why there was never an immunity added either on live though, because it is a form of cc just as any other is, but then again snare has no immunity either unless someone roots you. just the way the game was engineered.

Keith Johnson wrote:My opinion is there is a very clear and apparent reason that cure nearsight was added in the very next patch after this

But what do I know, I think disease should have an immunity after it's cleared. And sorry, but "Don't get nearsighted" is not a counter to nearsight.

You realize the whole game changed with toa, not just cure nearsight?

seanbud wrote:blue ns is fine. I played 47/26 dark rm for years and years. blue is like 45% vs yellow 55 and red 65. the difference really isn't THAT significant, it still serves its purpose as a long range interrupt that gives you a range advantage vs enemy casters.

anyways I know you said you're darkcarver, so I guess I'm just saying mid having blue isn't that much of a disadvantage at all if you consider the ns line also gives pbt. if you're cold debuffing spec your groups should always include a dark rm with blue ns, and maybe you'll have less issues with ns. but yeah save purge for it at all times.

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blue vs red ns is absolutely enormous.

Cure ns as 4.0s cast on 40 mend would make this patch level infinitely more fun, you would see so many more viable group setups on all realms

JONNY_FROM_THE_BLOCK wrote:

seanbud wrote:blue ns is fine. I played 47/26 dark rm for years and years. blue is like 45% vs yellow 55 and red 65. the difference really isn't THAT significant, it still serves its purpose as a long range interrupt that gives you a range advantage vs enemy casters.

anyways I know you said you're darkcarver, so I guess I'm just saying mid having blue isn't that much of a disadvantage at all if you consider the ns line also gives pbt. if you're cold debuffing spec your groups should always include a dark rm with blue ns, and maybe you'll have less issues with ns. but yeah save purge for it at all times.

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blue vs red ns is absolutely enormous.

Cure ns as 4.0s cast on 40 mend would make this patch level infinitely more fun, you would see so many more viable group setups on all realms

Good to see, that someone has the same opinion

yeah i agree, the difference between blue and red is a pretty big one.

Exercia Devoras wrote:After reviewing my rvr-evening today, i tried to analyze for myself, what problems we ran into in our 8vs8 fights. The one thing that is on top is: How do i deal with nearsight?

It does feel like there is no natural counter to nearsight beside a 30min RA. Almost every sucessfull Hib/Alb group runs at least one caster with yellow/red nearsight. Im playing myself a darkcarver RM and my grey NS can not compete with it. DOnt get me wrong, this is not a crythread about how strong hib/alb castergroups are, because even if there would be a good way for midgard, to have a yellow/red nearsight(they do obviously not) i would rather have a way to counter it.

Iirc with patch 1,8x there was NSheal on healer with 40mend. Would it destroy the balance completly to have a viable counter to it?

Im really interessted in your opinions on this, because i want myself to improve but right now im handling it with a /shrug.

step 1: respec supp
step 2: win ns
step 3: cry when they GP
step 4: get nearsighted and be a PBT bot for one min/kill pets when you can.

atleast vs albs you win the fight at step 2

bottom line: classic is retarded beyond belief. give TOA+NF RA´s already so we have ML´s and a properly balanced game.

XiaN^^ wrote:give TOA+NF RA´s already.

lol, good one.


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Blue vs red is not at all an enormous difference. A large part of the effectiveness of nearsight comes from the psychological impact. How many people get hit with blue nearsight and go, "Oh, no big deal, I just have to charge potentially halfway into enemy range to continue doing my job now"? I'm willing to be bet that almost everyone who gets hit with blue nearsight has the same reaction that they'd have if it were red, that is, "Oh ******, I'm useless now. What the hell am I gonna do about this?" Grey might be a different story, especially if you're a caster in an extending group, but I have a hard time believing that people don't sweat blue, otherwise this thread wouldn't exist.

most common spell range is 1500. this is much lower than live already because of toa effects.

blue nearsight is 45%, cuts you to 825 even. Nearly half range, which sucks but it's workable even with lag and uthgard's seemingly odd melee range > IE you start a cast, you see a tank get off his target and go straight for you > you have enough time to 180 out of his range.

red nearsight is 65%, cuts you to 525 even. The above is extremely hard to perform even if at your max current range.

Factor in lag, and people rarely if ever being max range, and you're only option of casting anything on others (support or offensive) is probably in the 700 range for blue nearsight (minstrel range), and 400 for red nearsight. I shouldn't have to go into further details but 400 range is borderline melee range here on uthgard.

I consider the two spells enormously different.

aylictal wrote:most common spell range is 1500. this is much lower than live already because of toa effects.

blue nearsight is 45%, cuts you to 825 even. Nearly half range, which sucks but it's workable even with lag and uthgard's seemingly odd melee range > IE you start a cast, you see a tank get off his target and go straight for you > you have enough time to 180 out of his range.

red nearsight is 65%, cuts you to 525 even. The above is extremely hard to perform even if at your max current range.

Factor in lag, and people rarely if ever being max range, and you're only option of casting anything on others (support or offensive) is probably in the 700 range for blue nearsight (minstrel range), and 400 for red nearsight. I shouldn't have to go into further details but 400 range is borderline melee range here on uthgard.

I consider the two spells enormously different.

Obviously the distance is different and that means something, but you're completely disregarding the psychological effect of getting nearsighted as well as the difficulty in quickly measuring 525ft vs 825ft while in the middle of a fight. For all practical purposes, you need to react to blue NS in pretty much the same exact way as you would react to any higher level of NS. If this wasn't true, then this thread wouldn't exist, because I'd bet money that blue NS is far more prevalent than yellow or red. No one gets hit with blue NS and considers it a minor inconvenience, thanking their stars that it wasn't red.