clandestino2a wrote:

Ensley03 wrote:8v8 was invented on Mordred by my guild and others in mid-SI, early 2002 ish. It was a very competitive thing, the primary RvR loop being from TNN N gate to Druim Ligen and just back and forth. BANDA, Torcan, Dizzy, Xploit were some of the main guilds that really jump started this.

It was great because there were very few adds, no zergs, and everyone respected fights.

you didn't invented anything, its simply the way it was on pvp servers, it was the same on camlann except adds were a common thing because it wasn't low pop like mordred. in a guild vs guild environnement its normal that 8v8 rule but on a RvR server it makes no sense to cry for being zerged.

Lul, didn't Camlann completely die after ToA came out, and Mordred was still thriving and more fun than ever? Lots of bad Euro guilds like Freefrogs came to Mordred just to add fights because they couldn't win 8v8. =(

Ensley03 wrote:8v8 was invented on Mordred by my guild and others in mid-SI, early 2002 ish. It was a very competitive thing, the primary RvR loop being from TNN N gate to Druim Ligen and just back and forth. BANDA, Torcan, Dizzy, Xploit were some of the main guilds that really jump started this.

It was great because there were very few adds, no zergs, and everyone respected fights.

you invented 8vs8??

is that a serious claim?

Life is easy RR5+ with a set group right?

Imagine being low realm rank pug and trying to adhere to these rule, leaving fights alone, waiting for med, doing everything by the book just to end up getting rofl-stomped by that high RR group that don't even bother burning any RAs on you.
Or getting added on in their own fights.
Can you blame them for adding some fights next run?

Please do run cool 8v8 group, I will try too, but just maaaybe ease off on the complains and take a loss or two from "unfair" adding?
And further more, ain't Emain a bit too crowded on Uth2 to get clean fights?

Sector7G wrote:8 rr5+ vs 8 rr3+4, I can see where that fight is going,

Maybe zerg it up till rr5?

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Surprisingly it's not that bad with old realm abilities. I've had victory in pugs against some big hitters on the server already. I think it's only Prime that we haven't beaten.


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And Prime is on average RR5, with lots of RR1-3 replacements lately.

I really dont get this "high rr"-QQs all the time. Especially with old RA's and the scaling costs, every group is 100% competitive with RR3-4 (tanks get Det5, everyone has purge + supporters get its unique RA + MCL). Not talking about the long RA cooldowns, so even a RR7+ grp could "feel" like a RR2 group for 30 mins after a tough fight.

At the end it is just an easy excuse why ppl lost to another group.

Ensley03 wrote:

clandestino2a wrote:

Ensley03 wrote:8v8 was invented on Mordred by my guild and others in mid-SI, early 2002 ish. It was a very competitive thing, the primary RvR loop being from TNN N gate to Druim Ligen and just back and forth. BANDA, Torcan, Dizzy, Xploit were some of the main guilds that really jump started this.

It was great because there were very few adds, no zergs, and everyone respected fights.

you didn't invented anything, its simply the way it was on pvp servers, it was the same on camlann except adds were a common thing because it wasn't low pop like mordred. in a guild vs guild environnement its normal that 8v8 rule but on a RvR server it makes no sense to cry for being zerged.

Lul, didn't Camlann completely die after ToA came out, and Mordred was still thriving and more fun than ever? Lots of bad Euro guilds like Freefrogs came to Mordred just to add fights because they couldn't win 8v8. =(

camlann died after WoW came and before that it was 1500+ players online every day on prime time

Zocci wrote:Life is easy RR5+ with a set group right?

Imagine being low realm rank pug and trying to adhere to these rule, leaving fights alone, waiting for med, doing everything by the book just to end up getting rofl-stomped by that high RR group that don't even bother burning any RAs on you.

There aren't many high rr set grps running, really. However, there are many, many pug groups around. So it's actually quite possible to succesfully pug on uthgard 2.0, much easyer than it was on 1.0.

Shafi wrote:

Zocci wrote:Life is easy RR5+ with a set group right?

Imagine being low realm rank pug and trying to adhere to these rule, leaving fights alone, waiting for med, doing everything by the book just to end up getting rofl-stomped by that high RR group that don't even bother burning any RAs on you.

There aren't many high rr set grps running, really. However, there are many, many pug groups around. So it's actually quite possible to succesfully pug on uthgard 2.0, much easyer than it was on 1.0.

This, and what Barto22 said sounds good.

So this is more of a fox in the hen house type of deal where the fox wants the hen to line up one by one?
If you run a good, tight group and your enemies needs to zerg/add to get you down, ain't that one hell of a compliment in it self?

Anyway, from my few hours out there it seems RvR is healty. Let's keep it that way!

Hotpockets wrote:I started DAoC in '01 as well. Stopped in 03-04. 8 mans were never a thing.

It's not because you didn't play/see 8v8 back in the days, that it never existed ....

*I've never seen 1.000.000.000 dollar cash, it can't be a thing then !*

My experience of daoc back in the day was on the Prydwen server, so I can only relate to that.

8v8 was always a thing, some people respected it and wouldn't add on fights, others would add on fights. There is no right or wrong way. A low RR group could easily beat higher RR groups. Many pug groups would only use the in-built chat system whereas dedicated, allbeit low RR set groups, would use vent or some other coms system and roll most out there because they were organised.

That's all old school daoc really was, the more organised a set of players were the better results they would get.

Like all mmos it boils down to casual playing vs everyday playing. More casuals will join or form a zerg whilst people who can dedicate more time try and find like minded individuals to practise and get organised. As long as you're playing the game the way that you find enjoyabe it doesn't matter.

Back on the server's I played on, 8 man guild groups weren't really common. Like on Iseult I can remember Bedlam and Wrath. Igraine had Beyond Death and some hib group I can't remember. But even then on those server's it wasn't the norm, and I remember them being called gank groups back then too. Could be because I've almost alway's solo'd/small man'd but I just don't remember much 8v8 going on back during classic.

Kha wrote:

Hotpockets wrote:I started DAoC in '01 as well. Stopped in 03-04. 8 mans were never a thing.

It's not because you didn't play/see 8v8 back in the days, that it never existed ....

*I've never seen 1.000.000.000 dollar cash, it can't be a thing then !*

Oh my god, that Pac Healer is a real gimp.

If "competitive" RvR is all someone is interested in and it's not fun otherwise, this is the wrong game to be playing. DAoC wasn't developed to be a competitive PvP game.

There has never been an 8v8 ranking system, scheduled 8v8 tournaments, 8v8 arenas or anything of the sort. Why would you expect to be able to fight in an open-world PvP environment without getting random adds? That's such a ridiculous expectation given the design of this game.

If you're not enjoying yourself because your team can't flex it's 8v8 muscle, Alteri looks like a decent option. I hate to see folks go but I also hate to see folks leave because they get flamed to oblivion if they add on a fight.

Enjoy the game...relish the opportunities that you're able to use your 8v8 prowess because I agree, it's definitely fun when it happens. However, if it ruins the experience for you when you're unable to do so, you're playing the wrong game because it's bound to happen.

I don't know, I'm probably crazy.

dabrixmgp wrote:I started playing DAoC in November of 2001 and I dont remember 8v8 being a thing back then. I remember running around with large groups of Albs fighting other large groups of Hibs and Mids. The most fun I ever had was fighting a large Mid group then having a large Hib group come in and ass jam us. Some times the 3rd group took our side and helped us and sometimes they helped in our demise. I never got mad because it was fun. Now you have all these rules. I have both been in fights and watched streamers where the 3rd realm wont jump in the fight. What the hell is this crap and when did it begin because I dont remember RvR being like this 15 years ago.

it has pretty much been a thing since year 1 as to the players that were actually good (if you can even use that word for that era) it became clear very quickly that 8v8 is the most competitive and enjoyable way to play the game. rules werent as strict as they are now as everything was still in development but its not like some messiah one day came into IRC and brought everyone the 10 commandments. the rules developed naturally cos ppl felt like its the right thing to do to not add ongoing fights or pull off when a 3rd group adds a fight. the fact that the same ruleset developed on all servers all over the world independently from each other should give you a hint that thats the correct way to play the game.

XiaN^^ wrote:

dabrixmgp wrote:I started playing DAoC in November of 2001 and I dont remember 8v8 being a thing back then. I remember running around with large groups of Albs fighting other large groups of Hibs and Mids. The most fun I ever had was fighting a large Mid group then having a large Hib group come in and ass jam us. Some times the 3rd group took our side and helped us and sometimes they helped in our demise. I never got mad because it was fun. Now you have all these rules. I have both been in fights and watched streamers where the 3rd realm wont jump in the fight. What the hell is this crap and when did it begin because I dont remember RvR being like this 15 years ago.

it has pretty much been a thing since year 1 as to the players that were actually good (if you can even use that word for that era) it became clear very quickly that 8v8 is the most competitive and enjoyable way to play the game. rules werent as strict as they are now as everything was still in development but its not like some messiah one day came into IRC and brought everyone the 10 commandments. the rules developed naturally cos ppl felt like its the right thing to do to not add ongoing fights or pull off when a 3rd group adds a fight. the fact that the same ruleset developed on all servers all over the world independently from each other should give you a hint that thats the correct way to play the game.

Then I've never played this game correctly, which is shocking to me since I've had plenty of fun playing it incorrectly.

I feel like these "rules" are what the OP was referring more to. Obviously people ran in groups of 8, but it doesn't seem like these "rules" really existed early on. I said it already but I'll say it again, all the 8-mans I knew of back in the day were interested in zerg busting, not arena-style 8v8 fighting. They were 8vX groups, which makes infinitely more sense in an open world factional PvP game like DAoC. I read VNBoards a lot early on, and I don't recall ever seeing a complaint about one 8-man adding onto another 8-man. The closest thing to that I can remember is complaining about zergs, but it was just the groups that couldn't hang that did that. The others were happy to have so many RPs and so much spam.