They will never post the GR or research done. They probably just plugged in a 5.0 GR and called it a day.

teddie wrote:

Zob wrote:People really complaining about Tundra when there are things around like group purge, bedazzling aura of deflectiom, BOF and SoS around?

Tundra can kill one person.

SoS can wipe the best group.

Do the math!

My lev 19 dot can kill a whole zerg. I mean, theoretically...

I mean even if it does kill someone (which is not certain with bladeturn, guard/intercept etc.), it has a lot less impact on a fight than a SoS or Group Purge.

Not admitting that is just dishonest.

Satiah wrote:

Zubasa2016 wrote:

Evinac wrote:But mids are at a severe disadvantage at this patch level you guys!

armsman has the same style + anytime snare.
8vs8 alb > mid > hib > alb on this patch all things considered in general.

But no Vendo. Are people seriously arguing to keep this alive? Cause it will kill RvR when all the baddies start using this.

This made me legit LOL.

Bro if you're wiping on groups that actually run & rely on VendoTundra... then this gimmick screenshot-bait RA is the least of your problems. Your 8man is a collection of dumpsterlords.

Grunklestank wrote:This made me legit LOL.

Bro if you're wiping on groups that actually run & rely on VendoTundra... then this gimmick screenshot-bait RA is the least of your problems. Your 8man is a collection of dumpsterlords.

If your group relies on basically 1 shotting people to win, then you got a bigger problem then 8 man dumping ra's on you. Learn2play. There's a TL report calling the RA useless. Which it wouldnt be if you could insta drop people.

you have to realize back in the day people were terrible, including the TL. they probably never tested the damage with a slow weap + low quick and using it with vendo. they would just hit someone with MH/LA. lots of people dont remember playing back in SI time but most people had no idea what they were doing and most people didnt respec/test out ras and such.

I'm pretty sure when they said they want to recreate 1.65, they weren't thinking of this.

I´m curious. Enlighten me what the current Growth rate of the Style is supposed to be and whereit is currently at on Uthgard.
I can´t find it anywhere on the net.

I mean for 10 points you could expect "some good Damage" i guess, but on the other hand, there where a ton of other complete useless RAs in the game at that time.
Being able to one shot any non-fulltank class seems a bit too good, don´t you think ?

Zob wrote:
I mean even if it does kill someone (which is not certain with bladeturn, guard/intercept etc.), it has a lot less impact on a fight than a SoS or Group Purge.

Not admitting that is just dishonest.

Sure, being able to win a fight every 10 min by deleting someone without any counter is worst than being able to win a fight every 30 min... You know only mid has PR ?
Who is dishonest LOL...?

My guild in 2003 ran like 5 berserkers or somethin lame. One of them was like #2 overal for RPs on zerk globally.

I can say for certain that Tundra style was never discussed as an option at all. None of our zerks ran it, and 1 of them was known to 2h vendo almost every time we fought and assist the non-2h MA zerk.

That being said, maybe people just didnt know about it? Like others have said, the TL for zerk saying it was useless doesn't necessarily mean all that much. Some of the TL's were probably wrong about a lot of things.

BUT I really doubt Tundra Style worked backed then as it does on Uthgard. People were super nerds about min-maxing and strategizing and testing RA's back then just like they are today. They would have tested abilities and if Tundra Style worked like it does here, it would have been damn near core on every berserker, so the fact that the rr11 zerk in my guild didn't have it tells me it wasn't worth the points.

My guildie used to post lots of "big number" screenshots and they were always Ragnaroks. Like I said Tundra Style was dismissed as useless, because like the TL said, it probably was.

This is what the TL wrote in his report.

"-The berserker RA, Tundra, costs 10 points with a 10 minute timer it provides no utility or group usefulness. "

He was just complaining about the 10 points you have to spend to use a single style on a 10 min timer and that it is not providing any utility or usefulness to his group... he probably had some other RAs in mind like Soldier's Barricade, something to greatly support his group. He never mentioned it would deal worse damage than other styles, so im not sure why you always come up with this report.

Back in 2004 a french player wrote about Tundra making "big bobos", this indicates a high GR on this style and he said it would be worth taking it at higher realm ranks.
http://forums.jeuxonline.info/showthrea ... RA+Toundra

Google translate:
"Durkin had it and for a zerk who is often with 2 hands you make fury your rage and you make big bobos, again it all depends on the way of playing and the habits of group. As for its use in HS, drops. But it is true that I will not put that in the priority RA, finally it depends on your rank. Personally I will not take before having purge / det IV / cut hocks."

The question is what does the current GR of this style look like and if it is correct or too high. But even if they would take Tundra out of the game, you would still see hits arround 1300 dmg by using Conquer stlye and swap to Dragonstorm + Vendo mode to perform Sledgehammer (0.94 GR) as followup. The main reason is the 5.8 speed 2hand and low quick temp in combination with the possibility of getting 100% crit damage in Vendo mode. Tundra is just pushing it to the top of 1.6k crits i think this style got some GR arround 1.2 maybe 1.3 (similar to Armsmans Defender's Rage style).

m0e wrote:Armsmen don't have a style RA, their special RA is Soldier's Barricade. Or did you talk about the Defender's Rage style with 1.2 GR? Will probably be on the same level as Tundra, just without cooldown.

The fun part with Defenders Rage is: there is only ONE cloth-wearing character in the whole game that style could be used against: Valewalker. All others wearing cloth are not in fear of Defenders Rage.

m0e wrote:This is what the TL wrote in his report.

"-The berserker RA, Tundra, costs 10 points with a 10 minute timer it provides no utility or group usefulness. "

He was just complaining about the 10 points you have to spend to use a single style on a 10 min timer and that it is not providing any utility or usefulness to his group... he probably had some other RAs in mind like Soldier's Barricade, something to greatly support his group. He never mentioned it would deal worse damage than other styles, so im not sure why you always come up with this report.

Back in 2004 a french player wrote about Tundra making "big bobos", this indicates a high GR on this style and he said it would be worth taking it at higher realm ranks.
http://forums.jeuxonline.info/showthrea ... RA+Toundra

Google translate:
"Durkin had it and for a zerk who is often with 2 hands you make fury your rage and you make big bobos, again it all depends on the way of playing and the habits of group. As for its use in HS, drops. But it is true that I will not put that in the priority RA, finally it depends on your rank. Personally I will not take before having purge / det IV / cut hocks."

The question is what does the current GR of this style look like and if it is correct or too high. But even if they would take Tundra out of the game, you would still see hits arround 1300 dmg by using Conquer stlye and swap to Dragonstorm + Vendo mode to perform Sledgehammer (0.94 GR) as followup. The main reason is the 5.8 speed 2hand and low quick temp in combination with the possibility of getting 100% crit damage in Vendo mode. Tundra is just pushing it to the top of 1.6k crits i think this style got some GR arround 1.2 maybe 1.3 (similar to Armsmans Defender's Rage style).

I remember Austerim posting an Animist TL 1.66 link which nobody contested and the nerf bat insta hitted (because it was a TL report). Posting other arguments from the VN boards and Freddyshouse to no avail. I fail to see how a link from some french site without any further information, would trump any TL report now. But hey, this is Uthgard afterall nothing surprises me anymore.

A single style you can use every 10 min instead of 30min, with the ability to insta drop targets isn't useless (nor for a group). If we're gonne question TL reports or call TL's back in those days clueless then we can question every TL report.

At the end of the day, TL report or not, ask yourself the question if its acceptable if a char can (nearly) 1shot another fully buffed and templated char on a (regulair) basis. With more and more zerkers getting ever higher in realmrank, I can see this becomming a problem.

P.s. as far as I could see the french site talked about a cap of 700. Remember how clueless people where back then (which seems te be a valid argument all of a sudden)? Perhaps not all targets where running 26% resists and/or perfect armour.

I don´t think the style is "broken", remember that mids have a +20% extra dmg for str relic, and maybe some more +% for keeps bonus. So 750dmg*(0.8 )= 600 (maybe less if im missing some more bonus), is really so hard hit a cloth class for 600 dmg with a slow 2h weapon?? how much hard can hit the same zerk using the same trick (vendo+slow 2h weapon) with a ragnarok style?

Satiah wrote:A single style you can use every 10 min instead of 30min, with the ability to insta drop targets isn't useless (nor for a group). If we're gonne question TL reports or call TL's back in those days clueless then we can question every TL report.

I am not questioning the TL report, i am questioning your understanding of his report. He didn't mentioned anything about the damage potential, he just complained about its usefulness in groups since it is just a single hit every 10 min and this at a high cost of 10 RA points. This TL would have mentioned it if there was a damage related issue about Tundra or can you see a reason why he would not?

Satiah wrote:At the end of the day, TL report or not, ask yourself the question if its acceptable if a char can (nearly) 1shot another fully buffed and templated char on a (regulair) basis. With more and more zerkers getting ever higher in realmrank, I can see this becomming a problem.

In the end it is a luck thing so you can't say it would oneshot ppl on a regulair basis you will need a crit close to 100% and you can give it a try every 10 minutes. And no, i don't think it is ok to oneshot ppl it will destroy the fun if you are the one getting hit, so maybe they should consider deleting this style.

silenced wrote:

m0e wrote:Armsmen don't have a style RA, their special RA is Soldier's Barricade. Or did you talk about the Defender's Rage style with 1.2 GR? Will probably be on the same level as Tundra, just without cooldown.

The fun part with Defenders Rage is: there is only ONE cloth-wearing character in the whole game that style could be used against: Valewalker. All others wearing cloth are not in fear of Defenders Rage.

Yes ofc they won't be able to use it against caster and a Valewalker is not counting as soft target since they got a high absorb buff. If you pick the right weapon type, you will perform your highest hits against stealther. Albion got access to 5.9 spd crafted crush polearms, just try it against an Nightshade or Infiltrator with red str/con and base str buff, 0 quick in your temp (important this will raise your dmg cap) and let him hit you once, so you can perform a Defender's Rage style. I am sure your damage will be above 700 without crit and you are not even a high strenght Troll or have the relic bonus.

mids only have 10% str relic damage, not 20%