fixing theurgists will remove them?

Pretty sure he was referring to the top EU guilds who don't even use Theurgs, and often some of the good NA time guilds (GDS, Catatonic) don't have one either, yet they somehow win.

Must be the SOS + BOF, but then again, that's what Bethlem thought

Pretty sure they are mistaking plays for broken mechanics.

https://youtu.be/OZL0koCzZ70

My favorite part about all of this is being automatically flamed, and subsequently dodged, for intentionally abusing ****** when all I wanted to do was run a balanced build. Maybe we could have come together as a community and worked together to resolve this issue instead of everyone throwing ****** at each other making this an unenjoyable space, ****** you. The only person who didn't give me an inflammatory remark / dodge / quit after a single fight before I could test anything for myself has been Ramo. Everyone else has been an autistic pleb throughout the entire process, which then begs the question of why any of us would want to put in the work to help resolve the issue?

Please fix air pets so no one has an excuse anymore, for or against.

Everybody who played live for more than 5 minutes will see that ice pets don't function correct here. They are supposed to go into melee & stay in melee after you hit them with instant debuffs, amnesia or damage. That's why earth pets were valued why more than ice pets. On Uthgard ice pets will just start casting again which makes them way stronger.

It makes me sad to see that various of my follow albs come here and to the issue tracker to vehemently defend the current bugged status. Do you really need to sink that low to defend an obvious bug because you benefit from it? Man up.

Lithise wrote:Please fix air pets so no one has an excuse anymore, for or against.

You need to confirm the bug if you want em to be fixed -> https://www2.uthgard.net/tracker/issue/4149/@/Theurigst_Wind_pet_dmg_too_high

Also https://www2.uthgard.net/tracker/issue/ ... oper_range

How about fix the class overall so people can stop tilting each other?

Pbuck wrote:The best alb groups on eu prime don't even use a theurgist. I wonder about the people who apparently quit the server because of ice pets, what is your winrate vs darkdawn and prime pugs ? And while albion is indeed strong and there is no apparent counter to good Sos usage especially with a mincer who is also running a red pet, and there is some merit to complaining about huge rvr imbalances, theurgist on its own should not be a big issue, a 30 min purge is not going to help significantly vs blue+ nearsight, at which point theurgist becomes useless vs enemy support. The combination of sos + bof + theurgist is the problem and removing theurgist will still make low/mid rr hib/mid groups lose more than they win as shown by all good alb groups who dont use one.

The fact that some groups compete well without bugged theurgs doesn't make bugged theurgs less annoying.

moha wrote:Everybody who played live for more than 5 minutes will see that ice pets don't function correct here

I was the MA for Bleh on hib iseult and we ran the teenage virgin braindead hib tanker spanker back in 03. We had a pretty awesome bard that was an insane carry, Dgoober, that could rupt just about anything and everything on the field so a theurg to us was just an avalonian friar wearing cloth. I can't remember a time in which I was snared by a theurg, they were first target and I was usually on top of them before they could get a single pet out.

Post Toa I played Pac on galahad and we just bombed down most 8 mans with a single supp sm. If the fight ever went beyond 30 seconds the skald was sticking/zeyphering the theurg.

After that I ran as an eld in Butch with a debuffed banshee clearing pets while I double bolted the theurg down on inc with crits.

And after that, merc/minst in JV on lamo with some griefing on morderd througout.

Granted these are blue servers that consisted primarily of ******.

Even after millions of rps I couldn't tell you how they behaved, it never became a necessity to wining a fight. The first time I heard about any of this was after the feces from one of the devolved apes in our community started to fly; he took something that had merit in and of itself and projected of his own incompetence into the matter, ****** him. I'm doing the same thing now, but only to make a ****** point.

moha wrote:
It makes me sad to see that various of my follow albs come here and to the issue tracker to vehemently defend the current bugged status. Do you really need to sink that low to defend an obvious bug because you benefit from it? Man up.

We wouldn't have to defend ourselves vehemently if the initial posture made toward us wasn't hostile and akin to the typical plebian response of they beat us using X, therefore X must be broken. Man up and admit that flaming us directly and turning this into a witch hunt was not the way to go about doing this. It makes me sad that your capacity for critical thought has failed you in this moment. Go ****** yourself you autistic little ******.

Lithise wrote:
I was the MA for Bleh on hib iseult and we ran the teenage virgin braindead hib tanker spanker back in 03. We had a pretty awesome bard that was an insane carry, Dgoober, that could rupt just about anything and everything on the field so a theurg to us was just an avalonian friar wearing cloth. I can't remember a time in which I was snared by a theurg, they were first target and I was usually on top of them before they could get a single pet out.

Post Toa I played Pac on galahad and we just bombed down most 8 mans with a single supp sm. If the fight ever went beyond 30 seconds the skald was sticking/zeyphering the theurg.

After that I ran as an eld in Butch with a debuffed banshee clearing pets while I double bolted the theurg down on inc with crits.

And after that, merc/minst in JV on lamo with some griefing on morderd througout.

Granted these are blue servers that consisted primarily of ******.

Even after millions of rps I couldn't tell you how they behaved, it never became a necessity to wining a fight. The first time I heard about any of this was after the feces from one of the devolved apes in our community started to fly; he took something that had merit in and of itself and projected of his own incompetence into the matter, ****** him. I'm doing the same thing now, but only to make a ****** point.

It's really impressive how you dominated back in the days and I am sure no theurg ever got a single ice pet out against you and this godly bard, however, I fail to see the relevance of all this.

I fail to see the relevance of all this.

That's exactly his point...such stories have no relveance for the discussion, so the people he is discussing with should stop telling stories to prove a point. Otherwise he can also pull out a bunch of stories that "prove" the opposite.

At least that's how i understood his ramble

The use of the word "bugged" is frankly annoying. From wikipedia :
A software bug is an error, flaw, failure or fault in a computer program or system that causes it to produce an incorrect or unexpected result, or to behave in unintended ways.
On uth 2 : Ice pets will cast untl interrupted-->then move into melee.If no more interrupts occur, ice pets will resume casting after 5 seconds. What behavior of the AI is unintended or unexpected here? Aren't nuking mobs supposed to nuke when able to ?
Your proposed version from 1.65 live : Ice pets will cast until a single interrupt ( including aoe s/c dex/q debuff/ amnesia ) lands on them at which point they move into perma melee. Does this seem reasonable/expected/intended ?Why do caster mobs forget to permanently cast afterwards? This is the broken version rendering them close to useless. Are they supposed to work this way?No.Were they were broken/bugged like this on live 1.65?Maybe. You can wait until they get "fixed" but from a functionality point of view, casting mobs SHOULD cast when not interrupted.Balance wise it is probably over the top, but so is sos/bof , nearsight with 30 min purge, 20% spell power/dmg from relics, tundra style, and other 1.65 imbalances.

Wow, looks like Lithise really got his Jimmies rustled.

Pbuck wrote:On uth 2 : Ice pets will cast untl interrupted-->then move into melee.If no more interrupts occur, ice pets will resume casting after 5 seconds. What behavior of the AI is unintended or unexpected here? Aren't nuking mobs supposed to nuke when able to ?
Your proposed version from 1.65 live : Ice pets will cast until a single interrupt ( including aoe s/c dex/q debuff/ amnesia ) lands on them at which point they move into perma melee. Does this seem reasonable/expected/intended ?Why do caster mobs forget to permanently cast afterwards? This is the broken version rendering them close to useless. Are they supposed to work this way?No.Were they were broken/bugged like this on live 1.65?Maybe. You can wait until they get "fixed" but from a functionality point of view, casting mobs SHOULD cast when not interrupted.Balance wise it is probably over the top, but so is sos/bof , nearsight with 30 min purge, 20% spell power/dmg from relics, tundra style, and other 1.65 imbalances.

1) Theurg pets are FnF pets, so they act different from normal caster pets

2) It absolutely doesn't matter if it makes no sense to you or ice pets will be useless after the bug fix. That's now they worked on live servers and the devs started over and over again that they want to emulate 1.65 as close as it gets. That includes strange behaviour (if correct for 1.65) or imbalances (sos, gpurge etc.). As long as the devs don't go with an overall balance change to make thinks more even, ice pets have to function like they did on live.

Please stop trying to defend it, thats the way mythic intended for them, and thats how they worked for years and years and years, its not only a 1.65 thing.

I'm sure you'll still be able to play your theurg successfully albeit a bit weakened.

moha wrote:1) Theurg pets are FnF pets, so they act different from normal caster pets

2) It absolutely doesn't matter if it makes no sense to you or ice pets will be useless after the bug fix. That's now they worked on live servers and the devs started over and over again that they want to emulate 1.65 as close as it gets. That includes strange behaviour (if correct for 1.65) or imbalances (sos, gpurge etc.). As long as the devs don't go with an overall balance change to make thinks more even, ice pets have to function like they did on live.

1) Sorry but this is not an answer. Melee pets resume attacking after getting interrupted with stuns.They are not forgetting. Using the same logic on ice pets , they should resume attacking via nukes after the same stun wears off.Same goes with other interrupts.
2) Well since i am not a developer, i do not share this point of view so i cannot in good heart upvote the ridiculous track issue that wants to break ice pet functionality just because it was 1.65. I did not sign a contract to share this ridiculous point of view, and I do not accept the fact that to enjoy classic daoc i have to adhere to a strictly 1.65 version which had plethora of bugs and imbalances. Others share the same view as me for different but valid reasons. The casting mob AI improvement on Uth 2 was a welcoming change and NOT a bug, like for example : Double melee hit attacks, casting mobs NOT having a range check on the end of their cast, ice pets >25 lvl being the same for all intends and purposes so speccing ice line above lvl 25 is pointless.

Also a hypothetical question: Would the people here crying for "bug" fix, be ok with breaking something intentionally just because it was 1.65 like? What if during this patch time speccing avoidance of magic would increase cc duration instead of reducing it?And let's assume that uthgard dev's unintentionally removed this accident while trying to recreate the patch level.Would u issue an issue tracker reverting this, to the broken 1.65 version? If answer is yes, then it would seem you and others are working towards recreating a broken state of the game, even for those things that were accidentally improved to have a better functionality.

ZaiQQ wrote:Please stop trying to defend it, thats the way mythic intended for them, and thats how they worked for years and years and years, its not only a 1.65 thing.

I'm sure you'll still be able to play your theurg successfully albeit a bit weakened.

Since you are not working for mythic, you have no idea what was and was not intended.We can only judge from a functionality point of view. Casting mobs permanently attacking in melee mode when not interrupted is wrong and this should not even be debatable. I agree they are over the top balance wise.I also think 1.65 is crap balance wise(albion is too strong) and would prefer a more balanced game.But casting mobs and ice pet AI is one thing that i disagree about being a bug.How would you design a casting mob as a developer?
Also keep in mind that mythic made it so that insta aoe rupts would not affect ice pets on later versions.So clearly it was not intended for them to be at the 1.65 proposed version or deemed fixed at that time.