Unstyled dmg tests shows 15% dmg diference when hiting chain , 13% when hiting studded, 8% when hiting cloth, havent done leather on Uthg yet, Mr Blue this is from Pendragon like you asked :

UTHGARD TEST : arms 353 str ( 125+200+18 RA str +buffs) 45+12 polearm, 5.8 spd slash pole , WS 1947 .
LIVE TEST : arms 352~353 str (125+200+17RA +buffs) 44+13 polearm , 5.6 spd slash pole i couldnt find 5.8 so its a faster spd be aware , WS 1800

VS plate 34% abs : uthg min= | max =


VS chain 635AF 27% abs :
UTHGARD TEST min 230 dmg | max 316 dmg with 100% - 138% dmg variance
PENDRAGON LIVE TEST min dmg 263 | max 364 dmg with 100% - 139% dmg | 15% higher dmg on live with a 5.6 pole not a 5.8 like on Uthg


VS studded 585AF 19% abs:
UTHGARD TEST min = 262 | max = 365 with 100% - 140% dmg variance
PENDRAGON LIVE TEST min dmg 294 | max 407 dmg with 100% - 139% dmg var | 13% higher dmg on live with a 5.6 polearm


VS leather 550 AF 10% abs:
UTHGARD TEST min = | max =
PENDRAGON LIVE TEST min dmg 327 | max 451 dmg with 100% - 138% dmg variance |



VS Cloth 500AF 10% abs :
UTHGARD TEST min =303 | max= 425 with 100%-140% dmg variance
PENDRAGON LIVE TEST min dmg 326 | max 452 dmg with 100% - 138% dmg variance | 8% higher dmg on live with 5.6 polearm

You add a style to it and you can double it when using a good style like def rage, backstyle chain.

Would be nice to see someone RR5 with MP weapons test this and see what they get as well. Also testing true damage vs no armor on (0 AF/ABS). I don't have many complaints about melee - if our arms + merc gained 40% and 19% dmg, we'd just get dodged even more. The only issues I have are the double-quad bug swings from Savages and the absurd Tundra Style style bonus.

Ensley03 wrote:Would be nice to see someone RR5 with MP weapons test this and see what they get as well. Also testing true damage vs no armor on (0 AF/ABS). I don't have many complaints about melee - if our arms + merc gained 40% and 19% dmg, we'd just get dodged even more. The only issues I have are the double-quad bug swings from Savages and the absurd Tundra Style style bonus.

Mp weapon or rr5 will modify the efective dps and perhaps give a higher figure yes, i tested same weapon ingame and used same numbers in the formula ..this is how my arms is , variations can be made , but devs can do em if they want i m pointing the obvious problem.

For real?

Did u make an Issue on the tracker?

Yes

2h : https://www2.uthgard.net/tracker/issue/ ... 0_increase
1h: https://www2.uthgard.net/tracker/issue/ ... _increase_

Ensley03 wrote:Would be nice to see someone RR5 with MP weapons test this and see what they get as well. Also testing true damage vs no armor on (0 AF/ABS). I don't have many complaints about melee - if our arms + merc gained 40% and 19% dmg, we'd just get dodged even more. The only issues I have are the double-quad bug swings from Savages and the absurd Tundra Style style bonus.

I honestly don't understand the issue. You people are like from another planet, seriously. Flump is much higher rr than this guy, has purple strcon buff from shaman, has lower quickness/higher strength and at least augstr3(just like the armsman) + on midgard 50 hammer is 50 hammer, you don't need to spec poles + dmg line. So most of your complaints are based on a rr7-8 zerker hitting casters and targets weak to crush hard with a style he can use once every 10 minutes and uses vendo with it, so he basically wastes 2 active abilities on 1 hit. As for savages, that's also pure anecdotal evidence and speculation, because they also miss a lot, their damage is very unstable and though the occasional spike damage is glorious at times, it's also ****** when you hit with only 1 weapon 5 times in a row. It's human nature really, when people get hit hard in game they will cry about that and try to make it sound as if every single swing is like this. Gamblers always tell you when they win, never when they lose. Similar thing happens with daoc players, but in a different way. They will never point out how overpowered their class or realm is in some thing, but they will complain about one thing that bothers them, which doesn't even happen that often or requires burning an active RA + active class ability for 1 hit, in case of the zerker.

So yeah, people will always complain and try to make it look like every single swing from a certain guy/class is a bugged kiss of death. I mean, on uthgard1 reavers were the actual kiss of death, once they could get purge 3 and det5 it was insanity in groups. Access to 2 dmg types, extremely hard to kill, dropped down even the heaviest tanks with ease with Leviathan and people still somehow won against groups with good reavers. It was extremely easy for an alb hybrid or tank group to obliterate zerkers and savages with ease just with 1 slashing merc and reaver, yet people didn't complain for the most part.

Also, it's ****** ridiculous for an albion player to complain about anything at this patch level with old RAs. SoS, 2x BoF(for some reason 10 points and not 14 like most class specific RAs) in group and SB(also 10 points). Best caster synergy of all the realms, best casters in general and while mid might be easier to play for a pug(hib tank group also), albion is by far the strongest realm if players take full advantage of classes and setups, especially with idiotic old RAs.

If some formulas are not implemented correctly it is everyone's right to make that publicly known to the devs via the issue tracker. Regardless if they play Albion or another realm. Getting rid of bugged mechanics has nothing to do with whining

Valfar wrote:

Ensley03 wrote:Would be nice to see someone RR5 with MP weapons test this and see what they get as well. Also testing true damage vs no armor on (0 AF/ABS). I don't have many complaints about melee - if our arms + merc gained 40% and 19% dmg, we'd just get dodged even more. The only issues I have are the double-quad bug swings from Savages and the absurd Tundra Style style bonus.

I honestly don't understand the issue. You people are like from another planet, seriously. Flump is much higher rr than this guy, has purple strcon buff from shaman, has lower quickness/higher strength and at least augstr3(just like the armsman) + on midgard 50 hammer is 50 hammer, you don't need to spec poles + dmg line. So most of your complaints are based on a rr7-8 zerker hitting casters and targets weak to crush hard with a style he can use once every 10 minutes and uses vendo with it, so he basically wastes 2 active abilities on 1 hit. As for savages, that's also pure anecdotal evidence and speculation, because they also miss a lot, their damage is very unstable and though the occasional spike damage is glorious at times, it's also ****** when you hit with only 1 weapon 5 times in a row. It's human nature really, when people get hit hard in game they will cry about that and try to make it sound as if every single swing is like this. Gamblers always tell you when they win, never when they lose. Similar thing happens with daoc players, but in a different way. They will never point out how overpowered their class or realm is in some thing, but they will complain about one thing that bothers them, which doesn't even happen that often or requires burning an active RA + active class ability for 1 hit, in case of the zerker.

So yeah, people will always complain and try to make it look like every single swing from a certain guy/class is a bugged kiss of death. I mean, on uthgard1 reavers were the actual kiss of death, once they could get purge 3 and det5 it was insanity in groups. Access to 2 dmg types, extremely hard to kill, dropped down even the heaviest tanks with ease with Leviathan and people still somehow won against groups with good reavers. It was extremely easy for an alb hybrid or tank group to obliterate zerkers and savages with ease just with 1 slashing merc and reaver, yet people didn't complain for the most part.

Also, it's ****** ridiculous for an albion player to complain about anything at this patch level with old RAs. SoS, 2x BoF(for some reason 10 points and not 14 like most class specific RAs) in group and SB(also 10 points). Best caster synergy of all the realms, best casters in general and while mid might be easier to play for a pug(hib tank group also), albion is by far the strongest realm if players take full advantage of classes and setups, especially with idiotic old RAs.

You know what i don't understand?
How you take a bug report thread and go offtopic with a huge wall of text ranting about unbalances between realms and the QQ about it (kind of ironic) and someone even likes your off topic rant.

Aren't here enough threads about that topic? Does flumps-tundra-dmg have to be made a huge issue in every thread?

Wouldn't be surprise if Hib melee has the same bug...

So let me get this straight.... Berserkers are hitting for....what.... 40% too much damage under very very very *very* narrow circumstances (their average damage is no where near this once in awhile semi-lucky hit), but Alb needs a *40%* increase in 2h damage? -40% for Mid, +40% for Alb. Cool.

Valfar wrote:

Ensley03 wrote:Would be nice to see someone RR5 with MP weapons test this and see what they get as well. Also testing true damage vs no armor on (0 AF/ABS). I don't have many complaints about melee - if our arms + merc gained 40% and 19% dmg, we'd just get dodged even more. The only issues I have are the double-quad bug swings from Savages and the absurd Tundra Style style bonus.

I honestly don't understand the issue. You people are like from another planet, seriously. Flump is much higher rr than this guy, has purple strcon buff from shaman, has lower quickness/higher strength and at least augstr3(just like the armsman) + on midgard 50 hammer is 50 hammer, you don't need to spec poles + dmg line. So most of your complaints are based on a rr7-8 zerker hitting casters and targets weak to crush hard with a style he can use once every 10 minutes and uses vendo with it, so he basically wastes 2 active abilities on 1 hit. As for savages, that's also pure anecdotal evidence and speculation, because they also miss a lot, their damage is very unstable and though the occasional spike damage is glorious at times, it's also ****** when you hit with only 1 weapon 5 times in a row. It's human nature really, when people get hit hard in game they will cry about that and try to make it sound as if every single swing is like this. Gamblers always tell you when they win, never when they lose. Similar thing happens with daoc players, but in a different way. They will never point out how overpowered their class or realm is in some thing, but they will complain about one thing that bothers them, which doesn't even happen that often or requires burning an active RA + active class ability for 1 hit, in case of the zerker.

So yeah, people will always complain and try to make it look like every single swing from a certain guy/class is a bugged kiss of death. I mean, on uthgard1 reavers were the actual kiss of death, once they could get purge 3 and det5 it was insanity in groups. Access to 2 dmg types, extremely hard to kill, dropped down even the heaviest tanks with ease with Leviathan and people still somehow won against groups with good reavers. It was extremely easy for an alb hybrid or tank group to obliterate zerkers and savages with ease just with 1 slashing merc and reaver, yet people didn't complain for the most part.

Also, it's ****** ridiculous for an albion player to complain about anything at this patch level with old RAs. SoS, 2x BoF(for some reason 10 points and not 14 like most class specific RAs) in group and SB(also 10 points). Best caster synergy of all the realms, best casters in general and while mid might be easier to play for a pug(hib tank group also), albion is by far the strongest realm if players take full advantage of classes and setups, especially with idiotic old RAs.

M8 you got it wrong , and this guy ..me .. has done a few formulas in this Uthg server which you might be using right now ..just so you know.

This is Flump s dmg aplied in the ecuation with no relic bonus :
unstyled dmg = EDPS * (your WS/target AF) * (1-absorb) * slow weap bonus * SPD * 2h weapon bonus

2000 weaponskill, 67 composite weapon specialization, using a 16.0 effective dps 5.8 speed two handed weapon attacks an opponent with 582 af wearing studded armor.

Flump : 16.0 x (2000/582)x 0.81 x 1.114 x 5.8 x 1.435 = 412 dmg unstyled

This is ..this guy i mean me with my arms :
1878 weaponskill, 57 composite weapon specialization, using a 16.0 effective dps 5.8 speed two handed weapon attacks an opponent with 582 af wearing studded armor.

Disrupter: 16.0 x (1878/582) x 0.81 x 1.114 x 5.8 x 1.385 = 374 dmg unstyled


This is the dmg we should make unstyled fully bufed VS a studded armour (including resists ofc) , but i can tell you one thing... i ve never hit studded for 374 unstyled with my arms in my life , while Flump has done it as even with relic +10% his dmg should be 453 , yet he hits for 493 unstyled dmg vs one of the bards in studded which is actually ok ..you know why? this dmg i calculated with formula its the 100% and it should variate up to 150% which is max dmg.

Flump's dmg vs my dmg ..wow
412-374= 38 unstyled dmg when hiting studded ( VS chain, plate difference will be less and less ) Flump bersy should hit harder then my arms shown by the ecuation above .. is it that much 38 dmg? Problem is that my arms is not even doing the minimum and comparing dmgi ve done in Uthg to this formula resulted in a 40% diference of dmg VS chain , today if i got help i l try to check studded and maybe leather , cloth .

Mid aswell and hib actually might need an increase in their melee dmg aswell , i dont know , melee dmg formula for MIN unstyled dmg its there with link to website so you can understand it .. add + 50% to what u get and thats your MAX unstyled dmg , anyone who knows his stats can use it and find out how much they should actually be hiting for , and if they got the time do a test in realm . I dont know know whats in mid and hib , Flump s unstyled dmg from his Tundra style raised concerns to me because i knew i dont make that unstyled dmg with my arms , and i was right.

when i did damage tables in beta they were all the same. here is a sample of some tests I ran

left side = pally
right side = skald

both have 180str +60quick and same weap spd

I was just confirming damage tables were working. As you can see pally and skald damage is the same. I ran the same tests for the other damage tables also

http://camelotherald.wikia.com/wiki/Damage_Table

styles I used are .60 vs .58 growth rates

Style has nothing to do with dmg tables , i dont even talk about it as its a whole diferent thing and its irellevant here , dmg table is about Weapon skill , and i will try to find a data sheet where dmg tables was shown exactly for each class , the one from link its too elaborate and doesnt say clearly which is 1 st , 2nd etc . I dont know what program you are using and how accurate it is btw as i ve never used it.

My program is a parser of actual tests of dmg I did with both classes. It takes the chatlog and puts it in. It's not using some calculation you think works.. it's actual test data. Basically if you believe 1h damage should be more that's a different argument, all im trying to tell you is that 1h damage is the same on every realm. So it wouldnt just be a problem on alb like your topic states.

EDIT: Also the link of damage tables I have is correct, and I dont believe it's anymore complicated where factor 22's have differences etc


edit2: also in your original post you talk about using a slash pole with 51 but then go and use a 1h thrust which will be lower spec? you dont even take into consideration about armor tables and what damage it's vulnerable/resistant too etc.

idk why i took the bait to this retarded post

@Norada :

It's actually a very small sample 39 none / 500 skill for pally ... and 15 none / 209 skill for skald...
You had no variance at all during your tests ? Or you just tested your parser with a "sample" ?

Am just curious!! As a minstrel i won't do any melee damage anyway, even +19 or +30%
Btw, just for a binary Resist/Success on charm pulses, we test 3000 pulse for example (even if 10.000 would be more accurate).
That's why i ask ... 200 hits is nothing.