Sooo... switch weapons based on your target = immediate dmg increase, our savages do it

Romps wrote:Sooo... switch weapons based on your target = immediate dmg increase, our savages do it

I had a rr8 zerker Uthg 1 and i was hammer /axe spec ..the only split spec zerk i think as others were crush and it was nice but same as savages it was easy to swap same as savages slash /thrust mainh , with pole ..well i am slash/thrust and also i think the only arms on alb with this spec but swaping items in inv is more anyoing then just pressing a key , yet its worth it ..20% dmg increase when swaping from chain to studded .. probl is ..the dmg is not how it should be , h ogre mercs were hiting my zerk in Uthg 1 for 340 dmg mainh and 220 offh with flank style and after .. i dont think they do that now here on Uthg 2.0 .

Romps wrote:Sooo... switch weapons based on your target = immediate dmg increase, our savages do it

you can't split spec on Arms without somewhat gimping your spec(imo).

I think slash is the best line based on damage table alone. Thrust is ok but I'd respec thrust for the 44 snare more than the damage tables.

Anyway Arms is more about peeling, not damage, but with Slash the damage vs most of my priority targets is pretty juicy.

I went on live Pendragon test server and tested vs diferent armours arms dmg under same stats and spec as Uthg, and i was right , on Live Pendragon dmg was higher with around 15% vs chain and so on as you can see in my 1st post ..and when you think at the fact that some styles with good growth ( back chain, def rage) can add that dmg which you dont have you end up loosing 15%+15% = 30% dmg diference for a styled hit in certain moments.

seanbud wrote:

Romps wrote:Sooo... switch weapons based on your target = immediate dmg increase, our savages do it

you can't split spec on Arms without somewhat gimping your spec(imo).

I think slash is the best line based on damage table alone. Thrust is ok but I'd respec thrust for the 44 snare more than the damage tables.

Anyway Arms is more about peeling, not damage, but with Slash the damage vs most of my priority targets is pretty juicy.

What do you mean by gimping your spec? Yes and when you hit chain mids for 200 dmg is it nice? Arms ha autotrain in slash and thurst , use it and you ll be amazed what spec you can get .

Do you even DAoC bro? Who is an Armsman ever going to hit in chain unless the fight is already over besides maybe a Skald?

Also, losing shield weaponskill vs 360 evades+pbt to have split spec? If he was RR10 and could go 50/42/30/30, it would still be worse than just having 50/50/31/4. If our Armsman is hitting healers and shamans, I'm pretty sure the fight is already over. You could make a slightly less lame argument that thrust is neutral to BMs where slash is a minus, but the slash gets a bonus on heroes and wardens (who often push in), so pick your poison. Also Hib is a dead realm so being able to rip Savages and Zerkers is infinitely more valuable. Wyvernfang would be the only benefit to Thrust, but would have to drop Pole to 47 and leave Shield stuck at 42.

Ensley03 wrote:Do you even DAoC bro? Who is an Armsman ever going to hit in chain unless the fight is already over besides maybe a Skald?

Also, losing shield weaponskill vs 360 evades+pbt to have split spec? If he was RR10 and could go 50/42/30/30, it would still be worse than just having 50/50/31/4. If our Armsman is hitting healers and shamans, I'm pretty sure the fight is already over. You could make a slightly less lame argument that thrust is neutral to BMs where slash is a minus, but the slash gets a bonus on heroes and wardens (who often push in), so pick your poison. Also Hib is a dead realm so being able to rip Savages and Zerkers is infinitely more valuable. Wyvernfang would be the only benefit to Thrust, but would have to drop Pole to 47 and leave Shield stuck at 42.

This is abit offtopic now but i ll answer : Yeah i do rvr and maybe i solo sometimes and hit skalds wariors etc, ever thought of that>? how about 44 pole , 42 shield, 36 thrust ,35 slash and 7 parry? You play how you like , and dont think thats the only way , there were melee grps on alb having assist train with armsman in em and they were prioritizing healers and shamans .. you go bash on Flump m8 while he s healed by 3 healers + sham , no wonder Hibland is dead, he fuken killed you all .

MotaroReloaded wrote:
It was always like that on live aswell from what i remember , a merc who s 35+15 slash and 50+15 DW should use DW styles only if he wants a better style dmg as for unstyled dmg i always believed his dmg its not maxed on both hands and has to be also 50+15 slash , also if he s using slash styles his poor WS from 35+15 will influence his styled dmg yes. I play arms and i m 44 Pole +13 atm and i have 51 composite in slash and thurst but thats ok because my unstyled dmg comes from the pole spec which is linked to WS , style dmg also comes from pole spec, i know DW for merc gives his WS when 2 weps equiped but i know that his off hand dmg is not the same as fully speced in slash aswell.

M8 i think you got that wrong with min and max at least this is what we found out and Zipitty after tests finding all the modifiers .. if u r not 51 composite what we get in this formula 100 % base dmg = Eff DPS * (your WS/target AF) * (1-absorb) * slow weap bonus * SPD * 2h weapon bonus will variate from 25%-125% this number will only gain a bonus of 25% more dmg..but it can fluctuate down aswell , if you are more then your lvl speced then this 100% can variate up to 150% .

Well you remember wrong. It might be that on Uthgard they use these formulars that you are talking about BUT ON LIVE this is not the case. I gave you the link, this guy (vanesyra) did some really extensive testing and I was there (called noobystar in the thread) at that time asking him several questions to make sure all the testing is correct. He is still active and does really nice things for the community - I'm sure he will answer all your question.
He's active in this thread http://www.postcount.net/forum/showthre ... Charplaner

Even way before his tests people have found out that as long as you have your weapon line at 51 composite spec you unstyled damage is the same (not counting two-hand bonus) and if you use advanced style lines with that style, the damage is calculated from this line (Dual wield lines, Critical strike). This finding was even named after the guy that made it public on VN-boards (Wyrd) as it's also known as "wyrd spec".
https://sites.google.com/site/daoctests ... owth-rates

This is why people went 50 DW, compisite thrust and slash on live if they didn't choose shield. Cause as long as they used DW styles only, the damage was the same, while they could use the best damage type. Ofc once you use a style from the base weapon lines, you loose damage, as the style damage is calculated from these composite spec only which is lower than your dual wield.

I calculated the damage of your armsman using the live like formula and it gave me higher values than what you reported but lower than what you expected using your formula, so I didn't report it. You can do the math, it didn't took so long. Note - the values are a tiny bit to high when compared to live (about 5%), otherwise pretty accurate. This is live server calculation and might not work on Uthgard (if they use a diffferent formula here).
http://camelotherald.wikia.com/wiki/Melee_Damage

here some quotes from the original testing thread (again these were tests done over many month on pendragon)

"so the right answer is "no" as long as in both cases you have "mob_level + 2 <= bladed" then you will deal equal amount of damage with both 50 and 70 blades. but your weapon skill as displayed on your character info has a huge difference (without a real reason ^^)"

" so basicly dw works like that:
- base damage (unstyled) is calculated based on 1h spec
- chance to hit the offhand is calculated based on dw spec
- damage done by the offhand is calculated as a base damage attack (unstyled) done with the offhand weapon as it would be a mainhand
- style damage, to hit bonus and so on are taken from the dw spec if you use a dw style, if not its taken from what ever line you use.

other words for rvr:
- get 52 spec in 1h line of the weapon type you use
- max dw for offhand hits
- max the line you use styles from (should be dw too)

what dw does not:
- it does not effect the base damage (unstyled) of main and offhand. it only increases the chance that the offhand hits"

M8 this post is not about DW or CD , is about 2h polearm unstyled dmg being lower In Uthgard compared to Live DAOC, and the tests i ve done on Pendragon show it , if you want merc mechanics open another thread plz.

I miss my arms damage in beta. this was during beta when everyone ran duped temps too

from 1v1s with pots

[20:58:50] You perform your Defender's Rage perfectly! (+251)
[20:58:50] You attack Nightwarriorz with your shimmering Decimator arcanium poleaxe and hit for 355 (-131) damage!

[20:59:14] You perform your Defender's Rage perfectly! (+393)
[20:59:14] You attack Nightwarriorz with your shimmering Decimator arcanium poleaxe and hit for 548 (-128) damage!

[21:05:11] You perform your Defender's Rage perfectly! (+282)
[21:05:11] You attack Smover with your shimmering Decimator arcanium poleaxe and hit for 454 (-92) damage!

21:05:18] You perform your Defender's Rage perfectly! (+291)
[21:05:18] You attack Smover with your shimmering Decimator arcanium poleaxe and hit for 468 (-95) damage!
[21:05:18] You critical hit Smover for an additional 82 damage!

[21:05:26] You perform your Defender's Rage perfectly! (+312)
[21:05:26] You attack Smover with your shimmering Decimator arcanium poleaxe and hit for 502 (-102) damage!


in small man


[11:03:12] You perform your Crippling Blow perfectly! (+147)
[11:03:12] You attack Screamincreamin with your shimmering Decimator arcanium poleaxe and hit for 493 (-37) damage!

[11:03:22] You perform your Crippling Blow perfectly! (+132)
[11:03:22] You attack Beurk with your shimmering Decimator arcanium poleaxe and hit for 385 (-90) damage!

[11:13:55] You perform your Crippling Blow perfectly! (+182)
[11:13:55] You attack Seckspanther with your shimmering Decimator arcanium poleaxe and hit for 604 (-87) damage!

[11:13:59] You perform your Crippling Blow perfectly! (+107)
[11:13:59] You attack Beurk with your shimmering Decimator arcanium poleaxe and hit for 349 (-81) damage!

[11:14:11] You perform your Crippling Blow perfectly! (+114)
[11:14:11] You attack Seckspanther with your shimmering Decimator arcanium poleaxe and hit for 405 (-55) damage!

[11:14:30] You perform your Crippling Blow perfectly! (+215)
[11:14:30] You attack Tritian with your shimmering Decimator arcanium poleaxe and hit for 553 (-311) damage!


[11:24:09] Realm Rank Bonuses
[11:24:09] +4 to ALL Specs
[11:24:09]
[11:24:09] Relic Bonuses
[11:24:09] none
[11:24:09]
[11:24:09] Outpost Bonuses
[11:24:09] none
[11:24:09]

MotaroReloaded wrote:M8 this post is not about DW or CD , is about 2h polearm unstyled dmg being lower In Uthgard compared to Live DAOC, and the tests i ve done on Pendragon show it , if you want merc mechanics open another thread plz.

well I cannot help you if you don't read post properly. It's about +skill not affecting UNSTYLED DAMAGE once above 51/52 for every spec line on live while on Uthgard it does. The formula is not the same! The dual wield mechanic is the most obvious example top understand that.

But whatever, cry out loud that on a server that uses an arbitrary formula, your formula that you found in the internet, trying to explain the arbitrary formula does not work. Then you go to live and state that their forumla is not the same ... while on the same time you are not even interested in the real one, they use on live.

MotaroReloaded wrote:M8 this post is not about DW or CD , is about 2h polearm unstyled dmg being lower In Uthgard compared to Live DAOC, and the tests i ve done on Pendragon show it , if you want merc mechanics open another thread plz.

I admit, he went full .... out of topic.
Still a cool post, but no reason to be in this thread.

Kha wrote:

MotaroReloaded wrote:M8 this post is not about DW or CD , is about 2h polearm unstyled dmg being lower In Uthgard compared to Live DAOC, and the tests i ve done on Pendragon show it , if you want merc mechanics open another thread plz.

I admit, he went full .... out of topic.
Still a cool post, but no reason to be in this thread.

From both links I gave took me 5 mins. Matches the result of your pendragon test. Realy sorry for being offtopic.

Damage increases
level = 50,00
damage table = 2,20
relic = 1,00
varriance = 1,25
stat bonus = 2,76

total damage bonus = 379,50
round down = 379,00

enemy armor
base = 20,00
af armor = 100,00
spec af = 0,00
toa af = 0,00
total af = 120,00
item quality = 1,00
item condition = 1,00
absorb = 0,73

total enemy armor = 164,38
round down = 164,00

final damage mod = 2,31

base damage dps
Weapon dps = 16,20
quality = 0,99
weapon speed = 56,00
two hand bonus = 1,39
slow weapon bonus = 1,11

total dps = 137,82
round down = 137,00

expected damage = 316,60
test damage on pendragon (average of min/max) = 313,5

Norada ..your hits mean nothing to me as i dont know who or what u hit lvl etc , 600 dmg with cripling blow ..well i did 800 the other day vs a grey ..nothing to show off with really. What buggers me is how this dmg difference Uthg / live servers hasnt been seen in Beta ? People were just kiling each other ut no1 really payed any attention to what really matters?

Lasle wrote:

Kha wrote:

MotaroReloaded wrote:M8 this post is not about DW or CD , is about 2h polearm unstyled dmg being lower In Uthgard compared to Live DAOC, and the tests i ve done on Pendragon show it , if you want merc mechanics open another thread plz.

I admit, he went full .... out of topic.
Still a cool post, but no reason to be in this thread.

From both links I gave took me 5 mins. Matches the result of your pendragon test. Realy sorry for being offtopic.

Damage increases
level = 50,00
damage table = 2,20
relic = 1,00
varriance = 1,25
stat bonus = 2,76

total damage bonus = 379,50
round down = 379,00

enemy armor
base = 20,00
af armor = 100,00
spec af = 0,00
toa af = 0,00
total af = 120,00
item quality = 1,00
item condition = 1,00
absorb = 0,73

total enemy armor = 164,38
round down = 164,00

final damage mod = 2,31

base damage dps
Weapon dps = 16,20
quality = 0,99
weapon speed = 56,00
two hand bonus = 1,39
slow weapon bonus = 1,11

total dps = 137,82
round down = 137,00

expected damage = 316,60
test damage on pendragon (average of min/max) = 313,5

VS chain 635AF 27% abs :
UTHGARD TEST min 230 dmg | max 316 dmg with 100% - 138% dmg variance
PENDRAGON LIVE TEST min dmg 263 | max 364 dmg with 100% - 139% dmg | 15% higher dmg on live with a 5.6 pole not a 5.8 like on Uthg

From what i understand you have a formula that gets the average , is that what you re telling me? Cause you re using atributes but in a different way i guess .
I made an arms on pendragon just like the Uthg one, str stats and spec because Wep skill is completely different uthg/live and you cant rely on it and i got a 15% dmg diference with a faster polearm for unstyled dmg , add a nice style which would add that 15% and you end up with a 30% gap .

MotaroReloaded wrote:
VS chain 635AF 27% abs :
UTHGARD TEST min 230 dmg | max 316 dmg with 100% - 138% dmg variance
PENDRAGON LIVE TEST min dmg 263 | max 364 dmg with 100% - 139% dmg | 15% higher dmg on live with a 5.6 pole not a 5.8 like on Uthg

From what i understand you have a formula that gets the average , is that what you re telling me? Cause you re using atributes but in a different way i guess .
I made an arms on pendragon just like the Uthg one, str stats and spec because Wep skill is completely different uthg/live and you cant rely on it and i got a 15% dmg diference with a faster polearm for unstyled dmg , add a nice style which would add that 15% and you end up with a 30% gap .

Could it be related to that very detailed bug report

https://www2.uthgard.net/tracker/issue/ ... lculations

Maybe it was taken into acount in damage calculation but not the way it should ??

Blue said not enough vote to be a real bug ... But this i total bullshit, some really obvious bug have 0 votes, some others have lot of votes but are not legit ...

I don't know, if it's totally out of topic, sorry. If it's not, glad it helps abit.