This is probably by far the most popular pug comp. I rarely see it succeed unless the eld is hidden in trees and free casting nukes. I would like to see the paper daoc behind this comp.

When I see it run, this what I usually see happens:
Eldritch - Doesn't nuke. Just disease and nearsight
Peel Tank - Doesn't assist. Just peels
2 Offensive tanks - DPS

I just don't see how this comp succeeds when you only have 2 DPSers. An alternative I see is the peel tank could just let the eld die and jump on train for a 3 tank assist. Or the eld could forget about nearsights / disease and just assist nuke for a kill.

Has anyone had consistent success pugging this comp? How exactly do you run this comp when in a pug?

Vitticus wrote:This is probably by far the most popular pug comp. I rarely see it succeed unless the eld is hidden in trees and free casting nukes. I would like to see the paper daoc behind this comp.

When I see it run, this what I usually see happens:
Eldritch - Doesn't nuke. Just disease and nearsight
Peel Tank - Doesn't assist. Just peels
2 Offensive tanks - DPS

I just don't see how this comp succeeds when you only have 2 DPSers. An alternative I see is the peel tank could just let the eld die and jump on train for a 3 tank assist. Or the eld could forget about nearsights / disease and just assist nuke for a kill.

Has anyone had consistent success pugging this comp? How exactly do you run this comp when in a pug?

If the eld is landing NS's and Diseases 2 tanks is enough dps because spread heal is the only heal that will be in range since it is not effected by Nearsight. and with Disease on the target you are killing good luck to any healer or cleric to heal through that damage without having to cure which gives you more time to get the kill while cure is going out.
You also have to rely on the bard rupting at least 1 or 2 cleric/healer, and get through some instas theirs no reason that this targeted shouldn't die

It's tough against higher RR groups because of BoF/MoC healers/Purge, but that goes for any comp and any fight. If you RA dump of course its gonna be difficult but definitely my favorite comp

You should also keep in mind that you either have
- 3 offensive tanks (most of the time 3 bm) and 1 bard or
- 2 offensive tanks and 2 bards (that is the setup you mentioned I think?)

so interrupts and cc should be really good with 2 bards while damage is also very good with the 3 tank setup. The vulnerable link in the chain is the eld positioning because he will be focused on inc 99% of the time

Ofc it depends on the eld and the ennemy, when the eld survives long enough to ns everyone or doesnt die at all, he is a very mighty asset, with much more utility than "just another tank " this does also require good synergy with other supps and peeltank though...
but sometimes, especially if its a real pug where people dont know each other at all, its better to leave the eld at home and go fullpush melee 4xdps while the other 4 do defend each other...2 druid, 1 bard + either bard,druid,warden,peeltank.

And there should always be at least three offensive tanks in a tank grp in my opinion, when you have 2 druids, 1 bard, 1 eld, 1 peel tank, 2 offensive tanks, as you suggest in the 3 tank 1 eld comp you see so often, what is on the 8th spot then?

Uzkrak wrote:And there should always be at least three offensive tanks in a tank grp in my opinion, when you have 2 druids, 1 bard, 1 eld, 1 peel tank, 2 offensive tanks, as you suggest in the 3 tank 1 eld comp you see so often, what is on the 8th spot then?

A warden. It's alla about survivability.

So far in pugs, it's been a 2nd bard or warden

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I would say with an eldritch using nearsight and disease as well as snare nuke and str con debuff it helps. Problem is people think the eldy is there for dps he is there for utility and back up dps.

Light also gets a mez for those that happen to show up late. Yea I know it can be purged as well as the fact it last 40 secs.

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If you run 2 bard, 2 druid, 1 eld, 3 tanks, everyone is on boat with just 2 tanks dps and 1 tank peel?

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Vitticus wrote:I rarely see it succeed unless the eld is hidden in trees and free casting nukes

One of the problems with people's in game experience vs paper daoc is that it's extremely uncommon to find a player who is capable of playing a class near it's limit.

So when you hear people say, "Oh an eld is good because it can do X Y and Z", it's not really like that in game because people aren't playing the class well. Instead they're positioning poorly on inc, eating an instamez and then getting 2 shot.

Most people are flat out not good enough to play an eld well enough (especially in a pug) to make it worth it over another tank, whereas random mouth breather #2047 can play a BM at least somewhat effectively by running at a target and using some styles.

Solo eld is useful against albs, where you can leverage the extra purges to gain the nearsight advantage.

I'd argue that it's most useful in a sense that in that it forces the opponents to make some kind of decision on how they are going to deal with the eld. It's much easier for bad players to execute a strategy vs a full tank group than vs a group with a mix of tanks/casters.

The real issue with the solo eld comp...and most hib comps in general is that they are countered by mids on this ruleset, and mids make up the majority of your INCs here.

Full hib tanker (with a warden) should be effective on this ruleset, but the ice pet and melee snare bugs really ****** it over vs albs, while the damage/disease difference can make the fight hard vs mids if you don't neutralize their tanks early on.

This is the main reason you see people run a solo eld. People want to feel like they have a chance of winning, so when a full tanker fails because the deck is stacked against you and you don't have anything you can do differently, people look at an eld and go...."YEAH! Just disease and NS and snare nuke and we'll win, LOLZ" and it gives them enough hope to come back out, even if the reality is that their solo eld isn't going to do half of that ******.

I would run the classic Free RPS setup any day here.

2 bards, 2 druids, 2 bms, hero and eld.

Great setup. We ran it last night as a semi pug and did fairly well despite most people only are rr2

Good setup, but not a huge fan of the 2nd bard. Another meele or chant 10x better IMO.

Against top groups you will rarely win because of mezz so all you are doing with this setup is making it more of a INC setup and killing your mid fight Sustain.

God damn those scrubby Elds!

also the eld needs to disease/debuff the the target the train is on. Sometimes one nuke on the assist train will be the dmg push needed to drop a target. With only 2 dps tanks they need to work together and must assit every target to be effective. I dont like 2 bards but with 2 bards the eld shouldnt have to interupt at all. The eld has also gotta stay back and use his range and make the other tanks over extend there support.

A eld and a bm as peel tank can easily drop a mins/skald that over extened heal range trying to interupt. especially with disease/str con debuff