You should try to solo without speed or stealth! It could always be worse...

-Icee ghostlimb w

Llaw wrote:Greetings, fellow Swede and Prydwen pleb.

The third issue you're having is you chose the wrong realm. Had you chosen Albion, and to some extent even Hibernia, you might've been able to get more fights. If you want 8v8 fights, playing AGAINST Midgard is your best bet, because they currently have the most PUGs running. Granted, you'll also then be facing a lot more high RR people, because most of the high RR people are playing in Midgard.

Yes. this is something that I´ve realized very early on. Rolling mid was never my choice, I would simply never choose midgard for a classic server since I´m not a fan of tank groups and I hate having to have a useless class called Skald in order to get speed. (Seriously just compare what the skald brings to the group to what the minstrel or bard brings to the group in OF).

I feel that the current rules of the server is more or less forcing us to stay on midgard against our will however since there is no bonus exp or anything when doing the realm change and leveling on Uthgard is VERY slow. My friends dont have as much time as I do and soon I will have a lot less time for DAoC myself.
Giving people some fresh start like insta lvl for their first char on new realm 30, 40 or 50 when making a realm transfer from a realm where they already had a 50 char on really would be a good idea for the Uthgard staff to try to get the realms more balanced.

Vick wrote:
I really enjoy 8v8 but i Also like a lot zerg v zerg fights.

You can having fun in many ways on Uthgard but people like OP who Speaks disrepectfully about « coward mentality » just because players dont play like he wants them to play, are one of the reason DAoC is slowly but surely dying.

We are on a mmorpg not on a fps game, let people play how they like to.

Well, taking keeps with a zerg is not really a coward mentality in my mind. The coward mentality was more a reference to all the people who try to dodge every fight where they don´t outnumber their enemy which seems very common here. Some groups are so extreme that they will not even move out of their portal keep before they find another group to run out with.

There is also this weird mentality about "I don´t want to feed anyone RPs" that I have never seen before in DAoC. When leveling up in frontier zones I noticed a lot of people who were below 50 and still rather ran towards an exp death than giving away RPs. If everyone has a fear of dying and giving away realm points it´s pretty hard to have a good server. Dying to the enemy is a part of the game.

Spivo wrote:

Llaw wrote:About the coward problem, this is something that's always existed. Especially in Albion, where pretty much nobody does any RvR at all if it isn't part of the large, keep-taking zerg that shows up each day. There are actually RR7+ people in this zerg who have never once spent a minute doing any 8v8 RvR. That's how bad it is.

Right now Hibernia has most of the relics, this means that Hibernia comes out in FORCE pretty much every night. If Hibernia has no relics, you'll only see the 8man groups out running, because everyone else will be PvE'ing until somebody steals back the relics. This is how Hibernia works, which is different to how the Albion hive mind works.

Nice illustration of the problem.
Albs don't do much 8man groups? Must be they are cowards and can only zerg. Sure can't be any other reason for it.

Guilds have moved to Albion and done 8man groups, sure. But they all leave again before reaching very high RR.
Is that because they can't stand their cowardly realm mates, or because making 8mans work on Albion is hard work, especially if your stable sorc/minstrel quits and you need to find a good rep?
Chicken and Moo are the only ones who's run consistently the last 3 months? I mean a full guild, not the "pug" from Paper Daoc, Garbage and Trained Again.

No, lets just assume Albion somehow dulls the mind of those playing there, and makes them cowards in the process.

I don't assume. The results speak for themselves. In the last few months I haven't seen a single 8man PUG from Albion outside of the guilds you just listed, during EU prime time.

The average Alb player doesn't even try to form 8man groups. They prefer just not playing at all or waiting for Splitquick, it seems. Making an 8man in Alb is not harder than any other realm. Maybe finding adequate players are, but that's another issue.

Chamst wrote:Yes. this is something that I´ve realized very early on. Rolling mid was never my choice, I would simply never choose midgard for a classic server since I´m not a fan of tank groups and I hate having to have a useless class called Skald in order to get speed. (Seriously just compare what the skald brings to the group to what the minstrel or bard brings to the group in OF).

I feel that the current rules of the server is more or less forcing us to stay on midgard against our will however since there is no bonus exp or anything when doing the realm change and leveling on Uthgard is VERY slow. My friends dont have as much time as I do and soon I will have a lot less time for DAoC myself.
Giving people some fresh start like insta lvl for their first char on new realm 30, 40 or 50 when making a realm transfer from a realm where they already had a 50 char on really would be a good idea for the Uthgard staff to try to get the realms more balanced.

Well, you obviously had the time to level up one character each to 50. I understand it feels sour to have to re-level another toon just because you happened to choose an ill-matched realm, but that's the way it goes.

It's not like you're going to miss out on anything if you change realm and spend another couple of weeks to level up another toon. The same people will still be around playing. They'll just have a little bit more realm points.

Chamst wrote:There is also this weird mentality about "I don´t want to feed anyone RPs" that I have never seen before in DAoC. When leveling up in frontier zones I noticed a lot of people who were below 50 and still rather ran towards an exp death than giving away RPs. If everyone has a fear of dying and giving away realm points it´s pretty hard to have a good server. Dying to the enemy is a part of the game.

The whole thing with people being afraid to feed RPs to other people is just because there is an overwhelming amount of narcissism in the player base on this server. Everybody thinks they're a rockstar just because they have a RR7(!) character and that everybody else is a worthless ******. Welcome to the Uthgard 8v8 community.

Allow me to highlight another perspective as to why pug 8mans don't form, especially during NA time on alb... it's a waste of time. For example, at multiple points in this servers life, my group of friends has tried to pug NA time. The problem is that at most you have 1 group to fight that night. Other than that, maybe you are lucky and find a zerg of casuals /stuck to Splitquick or Eithne who just want to 30v8 your group or PvDoor. In either scenario it goes like this:

(1) Spend 1-2 hours forming the group, spamming across multiple discord channels waiting for players to log on so you have a good group composition so you don't feel like youre wasting the night running with a sub-optimal group.

(2) Run to emain and look around, maybe you get lucky and find the one mid group out or the one hib group out. Maybe those groups are in Odins or Hadrians, if so get ready for a 20 min stroll through a wasteland followed by suicides, rebuffs, port timers, and afks/LDs. IF you do finally get to the zone where the other 8man is, yes it's some good fights but chances are youre going to lose because these groups are super high rank. But because there's no other action and the lower rank players on hib/mid don't typically form their own 8v8 pugs, it's all you have to fight. We don't mind feeding rps but it does get a bit frustrating after a while

(3) Assuming you cant find the enemy group out (or if none is running) you buzz some keeps to poke the nest hoping to bring out some groups or small mans. We respect the playstyle of zerg players because it's how they have fun, but I wonder what the zerg will do when all they have is doors to break and no groups to zerg down?

(4) Splitquick/Eithne zerg shows up and they burn all their RAs as a 30-man BG to get 80 rps/kill and kill your group.

(5) Go to bed and try again tomorrow. Or until your friends stop logging on because there's nothing to fight.

Tbh, NA time is the biggest waste of time I've ever seen. Even Stevie's recent videos show the same fights over and over.. there is simply nothing else to kill at NA time but the 1 hib and mid group (Shocker/TGM pug, monkaS/GEAR pug).

Llaw wrote:I don't assume. The results speak for themselves. In the last few months I haven't seen a single 8man PUG from Albion outside of the guilds you just listed, during EU prime time.

The average Alb player doesn't even try to form 8man groups. They prefer just not playing at all or waiting for Splitquick, it seems. Making an 8man in Alb is not harder than any other realm. Maybe finding adequate players are, but that's another issue.

Not sure you know what "assume" means.

Anyway... do you play Albion and no people don't try to form? Because my guild, and alliance, and other guilds often form 8 mans, or well they try to do so.
I agree, making an 8 man is not hard, you can roll out with 8 lvl 5 armsmen if you want.
I'm talking about it being hard on Albion to form competitive 8 man groups.

Llaw wrote:

Spivo wrote:

Llaw wrote:About the coward problem, this is something that's always existed. Especially in Albion, where pretty much nobody does any RvR at all if it isn't part of the large, keep-taking zerg that shows up each day. There are actually RR7+ people in this zerg who have never once spent a minute doing any 8v8 RvR. That's how bad it is.

Right now Hibernia has most of the relics, this means that Hibernia comes out in FORCE pretty much every night. If Hibernia has no relics, you'll only see the 8man groups out running, because everyone else will be PvE'ing until somebody steals back the relics. This is how Hibernia works, which is different to how the Albion hive mind works.

Nice illustration of the problem.
Albs don't do much 8man groups? Must be they are cowards and can only zerg. Sure can't be any other reason for it.

Guilds have moved to Albion and done 8man groups, sure. But they all leave again before reaching very high RR.
Is that because they can't stand their cowardly realm mates, or because making 8mans work on Albion is hard work, especially if your stable sorc/minstrel quits and you need to find a good rep?
Chicken and Moo are the only ones who's run consistently the last 3 months? I mean a full guild, not the "pug" from Paper Daoc, Garbage and Trained Again.

No, lets just assume Albion somehow dulls the mind of those playing there, and makes them cowards in the process.

I don't assume. The results speak for themselves. In the last few months I haven't seen a single 8man PUG from Albion outside of the guilds you just listed, during EU prime time.

The average Alb player doesn't even try to form 8man groups. They prefer just not playing at all or waiting for Splitquick, it seems. Making an 8man in Alb is not harder than any other realm. Maybe finding adequate players are, but that's another issue.

Some other Guilds are roaming 8man, For example Sturmklingen (my guild) try to on EU Prime Time, Fire Ice and Melodies PUG run too sometimes, but when you get destroyed by mid or hib zerg, its normal to reach alb zerg and fight Zerg against zerg ( which could be very fun ! )

I assume for many PUG it's the same : they start roaming 8man and then finish in the zerg !

Vick wrote:Some other Guilds are roaming 8man, For example Sturmklingen (my guild) try to on EU Prime Time, Fire Ice and Melodies PUG run too sometimes, but when you get destroyed by mid or hib zerg, its normal to reach alb zerg and fight Zerg against zerg ( which could be very fun ! )

I assume for many PUG it's the same : they start roaming 8man and then finish in the zerg !

The last time I saw Fire Ice and Melodies trying to 8v8 during EU prime they added on us fighting a group of mids, and then SoS'd back to APK.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R5J-LgU-jLI&t=760

This game is cutthroat man. You have to run try hard setup and have good synergy in your group to win 8v8. there are not many groups pugging 8v8. maybe back in summer you'd get that. Unfortunately if you want to 8v8 you just gotta deal with enemies who never stopped playing dark age for the last 20 years. Ask for tips from better players about setups. It is frustrating dealing with rr9+ enemies, I know. Sometimes no matter how well you play if they have certain RA's up (sos,bof,moc) you're just going to lose.

Believe it or not There are people who reroll and have low ranks that win. Mid tier groups do exist just not every night.
Simply put - You just gotta enjoy the game for what it is and take your losses with a grain of salt. Getting tilted just makes it worse. My guild struggles with it every night but we still manage to get some wins.

Some easy tips that have helped us make strides.
Play with better players and/or ask them about certain setups you're losing to. They usually have strategies toward certain setups (caster/tank/etc)
Film yourself and your teammates and watch the replay. Talk about what went wrong and what you can do better.

The game is a slow grind and just takes time. Once you get rr5-6 you can hang with even the big boys you just gotta stick it out.
good luck don't give up yet! frustration is part of the game for sure

Chamst wrote: To be honest, not having cure NS and almost being forced to run with a skald due to the current state of the server makes it pretty hard to make good 8vs8 setups as mid.

lol

But, but, but... I thought RR doesn't matter with old RA? Who lied to me?

Midgard is the most forgiving realm for suboptimal setups and by far the easiet to pug.

NS is a major issue against albs, not mids.

The problematic state of RVR is simple, people have huge egos and don't want to play if theres no guaranteed victory. We just need more groups out so theres fights of all 'tiers'.

Llaw wrote:The last time I saw Fire Ice and Melodies trying to 8v8 during EU prime they added on us fighting a group of mids, and then SoS'd back to APK.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R5J-LgU-jLI&t=760

I notice three things:

1) You shame a guild that came out as 8 man, because they added a fight in a RvR game. The reason they SoS was because you and mids stopped fighting in the true 8man fight-club fashion.

2) Your groups break fight, instead of embrassing DaoC which is a 3 realm game and take the challenge and fight both groups instead of the fight-club manor. And this pushes casuals away from doing 8man groups, knowing they somehow have to both earn RR's and the respect.

3) USSR which attacks the Mids, are yet another Alb guild that stopped before reaching high RR. Think it's a coincidence no alb 8man guilds stick it out?

Spivo wrote:

Llaw wrote:The last time I saw Fire Ice and Melodies trying to 8v8 during EU prime they added on us fighting a group of mids, and then SoS'd back to APK.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R5J-LgU-jLI&t=760

I notice three things:

1) You shame a guild that came out as 8 man, because they added a fight in a RvR game. The reason they SoS was because you and mids stopped fighting in the true 8man fight-club fashion.

2) Your groups break fight, instead of embrassing DaoC which is a 3 realm game and take the challenge and fight both groups instead of the fight-club manor.

3) USSR which attacks the Mids, are yet another Alb guild that stopped before reaching high RR. Think it's a coincidence no alb 8man guilds stick it out?

1) Yeah we stopped fighting them and attacked the Albs. Totally fair 8v8 fight. The Mids could've stuck around and fought, they chose not to. Not my problem. What shame? They shame themselves for adding on a fight then using a 30-min cooldown Realm Ability to run away from a fight they picked.

2) We already won the fight, and didn't want to share the realm points with Albs. So the call is to quickly kill the Albs to get the full bulk of RPs, and then if the Mids stick around to rezz, clean them up after. This is the best play to make to get the most amount of Realm Points in that given situation. If we ignore the Albs, the Albs will siphon some of our Mid-RP... Which they are not entitled to. Also, it's disrespectful. And disrespect breeds disrespect.

3) No it's not a coincidence. Some people are just natural quitters in the face of adversity, as has been proven by pretty much all guilds that tried to go to Alb and failed and either stopped completely or switched to another realm.