The Band recently started running an 8v8 group again. We are running regularly NA time Tuesday, Thursday, and Sunday. Good action is even tougher to come across when you can only play a few days a week, so we've been sharing our schedule so Hibs and Mids know when they can expect us out (very different from 'arranging fights'!). Our runs have been seeing better and better action since we started, so I hope this kind of semi-casual 8v8 setup can improve the NA 8v8 scene.

We're all fresh 50s, and coordinated as a multilingual pug, but we're looking forward to meeting your guild group on the field, Llaw!

I agree that Alb is toughest realm to build groups on, but at this point in the server most players have 3 or more 50s! My ragtag group of 8 or 9 guildies can swap around characters to make virtually any setup. Even if we have to pug 1 or 2 players, it is easy for us to make something somewhat competitive. Early on in the server this was much more of an issue, and caused a significant number of my original guildies to quit Uth.

I don't see much of an issue with Skalds. They may not be the best 8v8 class, but do you know what other realm's speed suffers from bad class design? Albs rarely run Paladins, so if they can manage without speed 6, I don't see why is Mid in such a bad place with caster speed + permasprint. Hibs are the speed kings, no doubt.

Realm rank disparity is certainly an issue before RR4, when tanks may not have full det, and many classes are missing basic abilities, but it is fairly easy to get past that with at least keep takes. Once you're there, the difference may decide the fate of a close battle (the longevity of a healing class's power bar comes to mind), but if there is any significant difference in skill level the better group will come out on top (though by virtue of practice this will often be the higher RR group!).

Llaw wrote:1) Yeah we stopped fighting them and attacked the Albs. Totally fair 8v8 fight. The Mids could've stuck around and fought, they chose not to. Not my problem. What shame? They shame themselves for adding on a fight then using a 30-min cooldown Realm Ability to run away from a fight they picked.

2) We already won the fight, and didn't want to share the realm points with Albs. So the call is to quickly kill the Albs to get the full bulk of RPs, and then if the Mids stick around to rezz, clean them up after. This is the best play to make to get the most amount of Realm Points in that given situation. If we ignore the Albs, the Albs will siphon some of our Mid-RP... Which they are not entitled to. Also, it's disrespectful. And disrespect breeds disrespect.

3) No it's not a coincidence. Some people are just natural quitters in the face of adversity, as has been proven by pretty much all guilds that tried to go to Alb and failed and either stopped completely or switched to another realm.

Okay, lets both agree we don't agree
I know your guild are good players and have played a lot together, no doubt. I just wish people would understand that things are just not as simple as "albs are cowards" or "just form an 8man".

They did not pick that fight, they picked adding. You could say they were cowards for doing so, but it was the fight they picked.

The albs came out, as 8man. Their error was breaking the 8man "code".
Sofely pointed out that Fire Ice and Melodies formed 8man groups, and you shamed them, where I'd instead acknowledge that it's good people come out and try at least.

And still, no clue where the Uthgard only 8v8 mentallity comes from, the most fun 8 man fights I've had in daoC involved 3 realms, and several groups attacking each other, while you tried to "wheel" your group away so you were no longer in the middle.

gumby wrote:

Chamst wrote: To be honest, not having cure NS and almost being forced to run with a skald due to the current state of the server makes it pretty hard to make good 8vs8 setups as mid.

lol

I really thought this was a troll...

Daoc is an old school mmo where community dictates action and enjoyment. NA hib is prolly the best community this server has to offer at this time, that's why hib is holding 6 relics right now w/o any significant population or RR advantage. 8vs8 community is toxic and cliquish, that's why OP finds himself making a thread like this.

Now, i'm sure OP had good intentions, but really should've checked the ego at the door. Calling ppl cowards and condescending bs like this:

Chamst wrote:I do understand that the average player in DAoC has somewhat of an interest of big keep fights and huge armies and all of that, I certainly doubt that the way they want to play the game is killing guards, building rams and hitting doors over and over and over again.

just lol

Just consider the following 2 scenarios, dear 8vs8 player:

- 8vs8 ppl stop playing
- casuals stop playing

Which scenario do u think would lead to server dying/being shutdown and which will only see a slight drop in population and go on?

Danm I take one day break from Uth, and finally some decent forum debate going on. First of all OP I very much agree to many of the points you are trying to make, and can understand your frustation. Best advice would probably be you making a caby on alb, and powerlevel your friends who has less time. And setup the fights for them in RvR as you build rvr experience and team synagy. Should take 1½ month ish, and as you mention yourself DF will be packed by mids you can clear to build the important rr4 to get the bases of SoS, BoF (x2) and purges.

I personally really like the debate of especially Albion and the culture on this realm, I dont think they are lesser players, worse humans or anything negative about this playerbase. However the culture on this realm seem to go deep in the Realm Focused warfare, so from an outsider (with some firsthand experience) it still baffles me how most of the albs have just accepted this and dont try to change it.
As someone mentioned a page back, albion dont lack rvr players or classes with rr to fill a guild/pug 8man group, its finding players who have voicecom, experience, and most of all The will to fight. And this is why I think its a cultural "problem". When you can log on every day pretty much garenteed to have someone hold your hand, tell you what to do, and make pretty safe RP earnings by taking keeps. Why should you move out of this safetybuble, when you get your RA toys?

Instead you might just make an alt and make that one "RvR ready". without actually doing anything with those toons when they are indeed "ready". Building groups, finding the right people classes, and tanking the defeats IS scary and it is very understandable how most players prefer to be in the Zerg instead! Culture dont change over night, and if this is indeed a cultural thing for Albion on Uthgard 2 I doubt it will ever change unfortunatly.

And yes factors like autotraining, Endu range, boring playstyle clerics,friars taking up a slot for double resists buffs, fighting high rr mids etc etc. We have heard these reasons before. But I personally doubt thats 90% of the reason the daily 50man alb zerg runs out in a BG. Joining a BG you know will be open for you, is just easier..

Big shoutout to EagleGuard from Alb who lately have wooped my ass in 8v8, and I am super happy to see them out!

Llaw wrote:

Spivo wrote:

Llaw wrote:The last time I saw Fire Ice and Melodies trying to 8v8 during EU prime they added on us fighting a group of mids, and then SoS'd back to APK.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R5J-LgU-jLI&t=760

I notice three things:

1) You shame a guild that came out as 8 man, because they added a fight in a RvR game. The reason they SoS was because you and mids stopped fighting in the true 8man fight-club fashion.

2) Your groups break fight, instead of embrassing DaoC which is a 3 realm game and take the challenge and fight both groups instead of the fight-club manor.

3) USSR which attacks the Mids, are yet another Alb guild that stopped before reaching high RR. Think it's a coincidence no alb 8man guilds stick it out?

1) Yeah we stopped fighting them and attacked the Albs. Totally fair 8v8 fight. The Mids could've stuck around and fought, they chose not to. Not my problem. What shame? They shame themselves for adding on a fight then using a 30-min cooldown Realm Ability to run away from a fight they picked.

2) We already won the fight, and didn't want to share the realm points with Albs. So the call is to quickly kill the Albs to get the full bulk of RPs, and then if the Mids stick around to rezz, clean them up after. This is the best play to make to get the most amount of Realm Points in that given situation. If we ignore the Albs, the Albs will siphon some of our Mid-RP... Which they are not entitled to. Also, it's disrespectful. And disrespect breeds disrespect.

3) No it's not a coincidence. Some people are just natural quitters in the face of adversity, as has been proven by pretty much all guilds that tried to go to Alb and failed and either stopped completely or switched to another realm.

This is why you avoided rolling alb then?

Also, lol at playing for points.

Freudinio wrote:Also, lol at playing for points.

Correct me if I am wrong, but doesn't most competitive games revolve around the accumulation of points?

From your comment I can assume that you're not a competitive person, so your opinion on any of this is moot.

Llaw wrote: If we ignore the Albs, the Albs will siphon some of our Mid-RP... Which they are not entitled to. Also, it's disrespectful. And disrespect breeds disrespect.

Reading this concerning a 3 realms RVR game (it seems you dont have in mind anymore that this is just a game) is absolutly crazy.

Speaking about disrespect for people who just play the game and attack ennnemies ... man i cant believe i have to read this hahahah.

I don't think 8vs8 exists anymore and btw if you want to play an arena style based game go somewhere else...DAoC was intended to spawn epic battles...in fact I do remember some very nice ones...problem is, it seems the server can't handle those.

The last time a 100 vs. 100 vs. 100 took place (roughly) it ended in massive lags and was unplayable, that makes me sad
but won't keep me from planning further events

Topenga wrote:I don't think 8vs8 exists anymore and btw if you want to play an arena style based game go somewhere else...DAoC was intended to spawn epic battles...in fact I do remember some very nice ones...problem is, it seems the server can't handle those.

The last time a 100 vs. 100 vs. 100 took place (roughly) it ended in massive lags and was unplayable, that makes me sad
but won't keep me from planning further events

Just for the counter arguement's sake, if the server cant handle it, then why do it since it kills the fun.

I dont mind the occational Relic raids, taking keeps to open DF for realmmates. What I fail to understand is why people go out to take keeps, so they can build up realm rank and earn Realm abilities, just for the sake of taking even more keeps

Cya on RedZergDay (be glad mids dont like zerging on daily basic, and the blue wave only rolls out once a month)

wonshot wrote:However the culture on this realm seem to go deep in the Realm Focused warfare, so from an outsider (with some firsthand experience) it still baffles me how most of the albs have just accepted this and dont try to change it.

As someone mentioned a page back, albion dont lack rvr players or classes with rr to fill a guild/pug 8man group, its finding players who have voicecom, experience, and most of all The will to fight. And this is why I think its a cultural "problem". When you can log on every day pretty much garenteed to have someone hold your hand, tell you what to do, and make pretty safe RP earnings by taking keeps. Why should you move out of this safetybuble, when you get your RA toys?

And yes factors like autotraining, Endu range, boring playstyle clerics,friars taking up a slot for double resists buffs, fighting high rr mids etc etc. We have heard these reasons before. But I personally doubt thats 90% of the reason the daily 50man alb zerg runs out in a BG. Joining a BG you know will be open for you, is just easier..

Okay, but is this a culture that people get from playing Albion?
Is it the landscape/quests/mobs that breeds this culture?

I'm a little baffled that people think Albion somehow has a "culture".

There's a danish play where this is asked: "Everybody says that Jeppe drinks, but nobody asks why Jeppe drinks".

And I think this is the core. People on Mid/Hib just point at albs, and say "cowards" "hive mentality", and when albs do 8man and happen to attack in a 3 realm fight, it's "disrespectfull", and the other realms do the "fight-club" style of breaking fight.

Crazy lag on launch, Midgard broken Tundra RA, Midgard broken double/quad hits, etc... were all part of the initial problems.
But...
Necro PL, AT, 1000 endo range, cloth wearing main CC with no insta, low utility cleric, 2 buffers in normal setups, etc... are also a major part of the problem.


Alb standard groups have very little room for mistakes, because most classes are wimpy cloth wearers.
Tank groups are viable, but 1000 range endo on a gimp version of armsman puts a dampener on this. Add to it that your main CC will still wear cloth, and happens to also be dps which requires debuff to be effective, you are pushed back to caster heavy groups.
And that again leaves very little room for mistakes.

Culture can not be the reason why so few 8 man guilds roll alb AND stay there. 8 man guilds don't give a /&#¤/& about culture, they are there to be competitive, and would love as many enemy groups as possible to fight (as long as they attack one at a time, and respect each other...).


Edit: I know albs also have some of the best classes, minstrel is an OP solo class, theurgs can lockdown healers really fast if not dealt with.

Spivo wrote:Okay, but is this a culture that people get from playing Albion?
Is it the landscape/quests/mobs that breeds this culture?.

When you can get invited into the BGs, and take part of the keeptaking warfare and see every "generation" of ealier 50s before you do it. And it becomes the standard way as for how a realm does RvR, can you honestly not see the point I am trying to make? When the biggest alliance(Only alliance?) and its flagship guild is purely created for this playstyle, does it not breed and spread and overtake when competition or variety dies down?

Dont get my wrong, I dont try to say this is a wrong way of playing the game. I've done it myself, since when I leveled up and built my base understanding of how RvR worked on Uthgard, it was on Albion and this was alpha omega. Join a BG, and if you tried to build something else you were finding little to no interest. Because its harder to build a group with a decent setup, than just tag along on a Realm-daddy

Spivo wrote:Culture can not be the reason why so few 8 man guilds roll alb AND stay there. 8 man guilds don't give a /&#¤/& about culture, they are there to be competitive, and would love as many enemy groups as possible to fight (as long as they attack one at a time, and respect each other...).

If you move to a different contry with a whole new way of living and your own cultra dont fit in or is looked down upon, you might eventually move if you cant adapt. Just kidding, that was a very valid arguement
But the culture is not based on the newcomers and those who are not diehard albs. Those people who have played and stayed on alb, make the culture of the realm. And if the flagship is beating on the wardrum long enough and noone is building PuGs, and guilds struggle to find fillers for their core to do their own thing.

Would that not be the culture of the realm, when it comes to RvR?
But hey! its better than no action

Alb tank groups will beat the majority of the server. look at chicken n moo they run sorc theur minst 3tanks and rip most groups aside from the top pugs on mid/hib you just need endo pots. I think you hit a major point and where uthgard lacks is that it's hard to make pugs because people only have 1 or 2 classes ready for rvr since the leveling is so slow, if the leveling was faster and people had more characters it would mean more people are out rvring because you can easier fill groups. Can take an hour or two to wait for having an essential class like 2nd healer, sham, skald etc. It's worse during NA time(adding something like xp bonus during low pop time similar to rp one could help)

One of the biggest problems in the 8v8 community is just egos and ****** talking, if people were nice to each other and didnt ****** talk so much after every win people wouldnt feel bad about losing and would come out more. This happening puts people more on tilt and makes people rage in the groups when they're losing.

All this doesn't include how albion NA rvr has been dead this last week because 2 minst just add every fight they're in and dictate who wins it. GM's do nothing about the constant harassment from them so the action has been worse NA time.

Llaw wrote:

Freudinio wrote:Also, lol at playing for points.

Correct me if I am wrong, but doesn't most competitive games revolve around the accumulation of points?

From your comment I can assume that you're not a competitive person, so your opinion on any of this is moot.

Thanks for proving my point. 8v8 is about the fights, always has been.

From your comment I can assume you never did any meaningfull 8v8. Enjoy dumping on low RR groups to ensure the best possible rps / hour.

****** posers.

wonshot wrote:When you can get invited into the BGs, and take part of the keeptaking warfare and see every "generation" of ealier 50s before you do it. And it becomes the standard way as for how a realm does RvR, can you honestly not see the point I am trying to make? When the biggest alliance(Only alliance?) and its flagship guild is purely created for this playstyle, does it not breed and spread and overtake when competition or variety dies down?

No, I understand that you say there is that culture now. But how did this culture start? Was it there to begin with? Did the people who rolled alb take this culture with them?
Or was the culture maybe breed because of Albion mechanics and the state of the server the first months?

I think it's a culture that comes from Albion design, and to some extend major balance issues the first months.


But yes, the culture on Albion is very BG focussed, I just think the core reason is design, and not bad players.

I read almost every post but never wrote a reply before. This is just too good to pass lol. Once in a while, we get this kind of wannabe 8men elitist ppl in Uthgard because they can't handle the pressure/fast paced gameplays/lots of utility casts on live server. Just like in OP's case. He appears when hibs hold 6 (all) relics and then quietly disappears once they lose it. He just wants to make as much as rps possible with those relics so he calls Albions cowards to stir something up. i guess it is "hib culture" to act like wannabe 8men grps but instead they outzerg Albion 3 to 1 in numbers for last couple weeks then cry about zerging. You can still kill 8men albion greys but i don't think you will be happy with rps.