>> As my previous attempt has not been compatible to forum rules, I will post it again with excluding the unappropriate parts.

First of all, I'd like to thank the devs and gms to have this server running through all ups and downs and be willing to improve things to be more appealing and increasing the the fun for all of us and therefore the pop.

This might be a longer post and I would like to start a further discussion with it and put out some ideas. While I appreciate the server staff doing events to encourage RvR, in my opinion it was set up in an unfortunate way and did kind of the opposite of what it was supposed to. Instead of getting more RvR fights, it pushed avoiding anything RvR-related even more to be able to farm rps faster than otherwise possible. I easily made 50k rps during this event, but have never been as bored making this much.
Finally Uthgard is a server where becoming RR 2L0 felt like a real achievement again. This feeling was taken away for the last few weeks.


My point of view
I think the actual problem is today's DAoC/gaming culture in general. Where the reason to play should be to maximize fun/h, it has been more and more reduced to just maximize progress/h (rp/h in DAoC's case). In my opinion, the goal in RvR generally should be helping your realm, and rps are the reward for it. Not to grind to RR x with a set grp to beat other RR x set grps in head on fights. I enjoy 8v8 too, but if RvR is strictly 8v8 to you, DAoC's design might not be the right one for you.


Suggestions / Ideas / Discussion
So if we want to emphasize on the "helping the realm" aspect to improve dynamics and fun for your realmmates, rps should be seen as a bonus on the side helping you getting stronger, and therefore better in helping your realm. As I said earlier these are only ideas to start discussion, some of this is implented already and might have to be reworked to fit together well. The vision is to increase dynamics and strategic/tactical importance of RvR-related objects (e. g. keeps, DF, relics, FZ xp).

1. Taking / defending Relics (obvious, maybe like a rp-quest)
2. Retaking and holding homeland keeps (make it harder to hold 'foreign' keeps at same investment, would also introduce some lore because they are keeps of a different 'culture' lol, didn't think about this in the first place hehe), maybe make holding far away home keeps (crau, beno, bled) harder than nearer ones (guards/door hp only 80% e. g.), or holding home crau/beno/bled buffs your other realm guards, so it feels like a real loss if taken, maybe scale rp reward for keeptake accordingly / anti-proportional
3. rps for repping/upgrading doors (could cap at RR5 or RR4 even, or reward is just a percentage of missing rps till RR4/5, so it well get less rewarding for higher RRs, because for now you're just dumping money and hope someone will defend your juicy high rps keep while you are offline, or just let relic doors open because who cares)
4. open/hold DF 'rp-quest' (maybe only possible every 3-7 days server wide, so it isn't farmed constantly and you can use DF at least for some time, you can still take DF without the quest though just without extra reward), holding DF for double the quest time gets a (small) (rp?)reward to all lvl50 players of guilds that were logged in for this time that hold a keep (or only foreign keeps, cap at RR 4/5, maybe if multiple lvl50s on 1 acc, split the reward amongst them)
5. (small rp-)reward for keep def even if you don't succeed (scaled to dmg done, healing guards, door rep, maybe similar to the one for raiding a keep with defenders inside ... this and maybe making it impossible to log out from a sieged keep would encourage ppl to die fighting instead of cowardly retreating because they don't want to 'spend' rps )
6. rp-bonus (e. g. 10-20%) for killing enemies in your own relic zones, to encourage defending your FZ xp spots / horse routes and make killing xpers even riskier (this could scale up with the fewer homeland keeps you control etc.)
7. Scale some/all of the above depending on realm status (e. g. can open DF only when all homeland keeps are captured, harder/easier/more/less reward scaling to total server pop of the last 7-14 days (change realm switch timer accodringly!) so 2-3 people can at least do SOME keeps, etc.)
8. Emain/HW/Odin's teleporter keeps are no safe zones and retreat options anymore. If you go into enemy's land, you are there to fight, or to die. (mabye like a 5min set-up timer after that you can only get out but never get in again, no guards, non-raidable keep, but easy to defend with players so sieging it is not too rewarding)
(I don't like this one but may include 9. Establish a dedicated 8v8 arena where you can only 8v8, maybe with sign-up queue etc., but NO RPS GAINED from any fights, so you can really 'test your might') <- this will take away from 'real' RvR action imo

Why cap many things at RR4/5 ? Because by then, most classes can already train their strongest active RAs which will decide most fights, so you are no cannon fodder anymore and can have a real impact without relying on a huge zerg.
Maybe many people will just start farming new chars to RR4/5 then and never play them in RvR fights ... well, this is not what I can anticipate and would have been tested. But they will still participate in RvR and be possible targets for enemies.


Final words
The most DAoC fun I had in a long time was, when 2-3 weeks ago we were 2 semi-temped fgh trying to defend our homeland from 1-2 well set fgm that tried to lure us from keep to keep to get us into an open fight which they would easily win. I think I made next to no rps at all, but it was 2 hours of constant tension and tactical decision making which I really appreciated and reminded me of why I still want to play a 20 year old game in such a brutal setting.

More thought have to go into this if anything finds some appreciation in the player base and the staff. Please feel free to comment. I really like the Uthgard mentality to introduce as few custom features as possible. And I politely request you to stick to this rule and only change gameplay influencing stuff in a very calculated and cautious manner. Please don't do FOTM changes constantly, but establish your own vision.

Thank you for your effort and your patience!

Greetings
ShinLeigh

#noloveforluris

I think the biggest problem is the imbalance.

Edit: some nonsense deleted...

Hi there,
I can agree with you in many things but would really only make small comments or organize them as an event.

Point 1:
There are already points for deffing (killing enemy players) of keeps and relics.
Point 2:
Here I see the problem in the low population of some empires.
Possibly strengthen the keep guards for underpopulated realms or increase rp for killing enemy players (bonus).
Point 3:
I agree with you (25 rp per repair on Relis, in Keeps possibly staggered depending on the level of the goal)

I would make the Bg's more attractive. As a result, the new players / levelers could do their Rp and XP in peace and would only meet players with the same level range or similar realm rank.
For the conquest of the central fortress, I would grant access to the DF (in all bg's).
Even the last Bg or a further Bg could be limited by the Reich rank (e.g. 5L0).
or possibly introduce another bg where only players have access via rr5 (arena) for 8v8.

or events

Such as:
free your ambassador from a keep xyz and guide him to the telekeep.
Kill the Chancellor in Keep xyz.
I think many of these changes would not affect the course of the game too much, but would make the game much more fun.

He likes to make more suggestions and criticize, many things are overlooked or not thought of. Remain factual and don't let Uthgard die.

Greetings Rudra

I propose an event where players are awarded participation RPs for dying to RVR combat:
Players who die in RVR combat gain 10% of the RPs they gave to the enemy. 1-4 week event. Cap this to a maximum RR or x amount of participation RPs per hour/day if you think it can be abused to easily.

Perhaps if players get RPs for playing with each other we will have more fights with each other instead of players gravitating to RPs earned from PVE.

Examples:

Level 50 player gets killed by a Full group of 8 level 50s giving them each 200 RP. 200 x 8 = 1600 RP total. 10% of this total is given to the 50 that was killed = 160 RP.

Level 50 players gets killed by a solo Level50 giving them 1000 RPs. 10% goes to the person killed = 100 RP

Level 30 player is killed by a solo 50 giving them 50 RPs. 10% of this goes to the lvl 30 killed = 5 RP

@ShinLeigh

Really well put together post and I think there is merit in a lot of what you put forth. I hope the Devs and others will join in this discussion as there is some real potential for positive changes here.

Cheers!

Ebbie wrote:I propose an event where players are awarded participation RPs for dying to RVR combat:
Players who die in RVR combat gain 10% of the RPs they gave to the enemy. 1-4 week event. Cap this to a maximum RR or x amount of participation RPs per hour/day if you think it can be abused to easily.

Perhaps if players get RPs for playing with each other we will have more fights with each other instead of players gravitating to RPs earned from PVE.

Examples:

Level 50 player gets killed by a Full group of 8 level 50s giving them each 200 RP. 200 x 8 = 1600 RP total. 10% of this total is given to the 50 that was killed = 160 RP.

Level 50 players gets killed by a solo Level50 giving them 1000 RPs. 10% goes to the person killed = 100 RP

Level 30 player is killed by a solo 50 giving them 50 RPs. 10% of this goes to the lvl 30 killed = 5 RP

What would happen if a trio of 35s take out a rr5+ 50 ?
atm it is not scaled, now the 35s get rps as if they were 50

Ithiggi wrote:

Ebbie wrote:I propose an event where players are awarded participation RPs for dying to RVR combat:
Players who die in RVR combat gain 10% of the RPs they gave to the enemy. 1-4 week event. Cap this to a maximum RR or x amount of participation RPs per hour/day if you think it can be abused to easily.

Perhaps if players get RPs for playing with each other we will have more fights with each other instead of players gravitating to RPs earned from PVE.

Examples:

Level 50 player gets killed by a Full group of 8 level 50s giving them each 200 RP. 200 x 8 = 1600 RP total. 10% of this total is given to the 50 that was killed = 160 RP.

Level 50 players gets killed by a solo Level50 giving them 1000 RPs. 10% goes to the person killed = 100 RP

Level 30 player is killed by a solo 50 giving them 50 RPs. 10% of this goes to the lvl 30 killed = 5 RP

What would happen if a trio of 35s take out a rr5+ 50 ?
atm it is not scaled, now the 35s get rps as if they were 50

So if the 3x 35s kill a a 50 and get 350ish each, then the 50 would get 350x3= 1050. 10% of that is 105 rp. Doesn't matter how it scales. Whatever is earned from a kill the person killed gets 10% of what they gave. It will never amount to much, but it would be something vs the nothing you get for losing now.

I though that if a 35 kills a 50 they get reduced rps, not as if they were 50. So my assumption would be they get 100-200 each lowering the total to 300-600 rps and the 50 killed gets 30-60 rps. But either way 10% of what you gave is returned to you.

It is scaled down for keeps only. This seems wrong, as it is a bigger risk at a lower level. Risk greater than reward in this case.